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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

Reflection in my childs school

45 replies

C0lly · 01/12/2016 11:37

Instead of detentions my childrens school sends them to reflection this is a room where they sit and do nothing and they miss out on lessons last week my youngest was 2 mins late for class (he went to the wrong room) and he was sent to reflection for the rest of the day 4 hours so he missed 3 lessons and his lunch break does this happen in other schools ? Thanks

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fourcorneredcircle · 01/12/2016 11:46

Seems an overly strong reaction to being two minutes late. Is there more to this? For example, did your son deliberately waste time getting to the right lesson then become difficult, rude or aggressive when challenged either in the corridor by a roaming staff member or by the class teacher when he arrived? Does your son have prior form for missing lessons? Or being late for lessons with spurious excuses? Is your son on some kind of report where one of his targets is to attend all lessons on time?

Mistakes happen but I've never heard of a child being put in isolation that was genuinely remorseful or apologetic. I have I'm afraid seen lots of teenagers make poor choices when questioned about why they are where they are and not where they are supposed to be.

Original poster
C0lly · 01/12/2016 12:07

No thats the first time my child has been late hes not on report and he is a quiet child that behaves really well what I am really asking is this common in secondary schools ?

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Original poster
C0lly · 01/12/2016 12:11

Also I don't agree with missing the lessons I think if a child misbehaves or is late surely a detention during lunch or after school which is in the child's own time would be more appropriate.

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semideponent · 01/12/2016 12:18

That sounds ridiculous. What happens in the reflection room? To be any use at all in changing behaviour, most children would need an adult to help them reflect….and the kids most likely to end up there are the ones least capable of using it to good purpose.

Either way, 4 hours is far, far too long. 30 mins of CBT-based reflection and strategy-building, yes, but this, no.

My bet is that it's a fancy name for being stuck in the corner.

fourcorneredcircle · 01/12/2016 12:25

Well, if that's the case your best bet is to;

  1. check the school's behaviour policy. It may be that this is part of their standard outline of actions. In which case I'm afraid that it's tough. If you don't like it, you'll have to move him.

  2. then, if this infraction is not clearly written as having this result, contact your son's school and enquire what lead to the time in reflection.

Honestly I'm afraid you're likely to find out that your son's version of events is not quite the full truth. We all want to believe our children but most do lie to cover their own backs!

As to isolation it's a recognised strategy for dealing with persistent poor behaviour or an immediate consequence of one off poor behaviour. Work is either provided by the teacher of the lesson the child should be in or a task is set by the supervising member of staff (normally one that deals with whatever the issue was, so perhaps anger management, work on respect, looking after school property etc.). In the latter's case it is likely the child will be expected to catch up any work missed as a result of their isolation.

I'm afraid I don't know of any secondary schools in the UK that don't use isolation as part of their options for dealing with poor behaviour.

Detentions have their place too but isolation allows for a place for children who have had to be removed from a lesson immediately to be available or a place where children can be removed from their peers to avoid continuing issues or "hero" status.

Detentions can also be difficult to police as children don't show up at lunch time and hide from staff looking for them. After school they simply run off. Detentions only work of you have a compliant and remorseful child who accepts that they did wrong and deserve their punishment.

cdtaylornats · 01/12/2016 12:29

I don't see the logic in children missing lessons as a punishment - if parents can be fined for having children miss lessons why aren't schools?

pepperpot99 · 01/12/2016 12:30

It is very difficult to decipher your comments OP - you don't use any punctuation at all for some reason. Why is this?

Original poster
C0lly · 01/12/2016 12:35

In reflection they are given a piece of paper to write on as to why they are in reflection no actual work is given so my son missed English Science and Maths which I am not happy about because I send them to school to learn. I know my kids are no angels but in this case my son was telling me the truth as he has not had a single incident since he started secondary school. I have checked the school policy and detentions are on there to be given in 3 steps before reflection I have emailed the school (you can't ring as no one is ever available) this morning but I haven't had a reply yet

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Original poster
C0lly · 01/12/2016 12:36

Sorry Pepper my typing skills have lapsed !!

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fourcorneredcircle · 01/12/2016 12:38

cdtaylor some children can't remain in lessons due to their behaviour being so disruptive or because they have been so rude or unpleasant to a member of staff or one of their peers they need to be removed from the situation to allow all involved to calm down?

Surely you can see that having a safe place for them to be removed to where they can complete work provided by their teacher under the supervision of an adult is better than say, standing outside the head teacher's office until they are available to deal with them?

fourcorneredcircle · 01/12/2016 12:42

Well C0lly hopefully you'll get a response soon.

If the response turns out to be that your son was unfairly isolated then I'm sure there are lots of people on here who will be able to help you draft a response.

If it turns out he was fairly isolated then there are also lots of people in the teen section with lots of useful support on dealing with the difficult teenage years.

Original poster
C0lly · 01/12/2016 12:43

cdtaylor I agree with you and I would imagine there are some children who prefer to be out of lessons.

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voluptuagoodshag · 01/12/2016 12:47

They have introduced 'reflection' at my son's primary school. It strikes me as the latest craze, a bit like 'quality circles' in the workplace back in the 90s.

Having discussed the new system with him he says he doesn't think it is as effective as the previous traffic light system and reward time. The teachers say they like it and also say the feedback from parents has been positive however I remain sceptical. I've read a few incidents now where there seems to be overkill on the punishment in relation to the misdemeanour and I sense a subtle change in the shift of responsibility in disciplining the child. By that I mean getting a note home about something that previously would just have been dealt with in school. I'm not saying that parents' shouldn't be aware of their child's behaviour but if schools start sending notes home for every misdemeanour no matter how slight, then the system is ridiculous and the kids have no faith or respect when it comes to more serious matters being dealt with.
The reflection mentioned by the OP seems a perfect example of overkill. I'd be fuming!

Original poster
C0lly · 01/12/2016 12:47

Thanks FourCorner the main point of my post is to see if other schools put children in reflection for hours without any sensible work given to complete therefore basically the child spends 4 hours with nothing to do.

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Original poster
C0lly · 01/12/2016 12:52

Hi Volup I agree with all you have said and no I am not happy I want my children to learn in school not sit looking at 4 walls for hours there seems to be more emphasis on discipline than there is on education. I know behaviour is important but a child with not a single mark against him is 2 mins late and spends 4 hours doing nothing missing important lessons!

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fourcorneredcircle · 01/12/2016 12:52

Probably right about some children preferring to be out of lessons C0lly which is why schools record time spent in isolation h individuals and it leads to further punishment for repeated offences. Some schools that means a Friday detention with head teacher until gone 5... some schools it means a Saturday detention... other schools it means time with a 1:1 to help deal with often underlying issues. Many schools it involves all three.

Another way some schools do it is that isolation runs from 10-4 or 11-5 so that the offenders spend no time with their peers. This is often used in place of exclusion because it gives often some of the most vulnerable young people a safe place to be where they are supervised and supported. Rather than wandering the streets.

I don't personally agree with lots of things for example I'm vegetarian and non religious, but that doesn't mean that meat eaters and those with faith aren't a legitimate thing that other people are entitled to do.

Original poster
C0lly · 01/12/2016 13:00

Yes Fourcorner I know some children who would do anything to get our of lessons ! I understand that if a child is behaving badly being disruptive that then the child must be taken our of the lesson but a child who makes a genuine mistake who is not abusive etc then surely a detention makes more sense rather than hours in reflection.

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fourcorneredcircle · 01/12/2016 13:10

Yup, and I agree with you that if that's the full story it's OTT.

TeenAndTween · 01/12/2016 17:26

Dear school,

According to my son, yesterday he was 2 minutes late to lesson A because he accidentally went to the wrong room. he says the consequence for this was to spend 4 periods plus lunch in the reflections room with no work set, missing core subjects Maths, English and Science.

As this seems to be quite a large consequence, can you confirm to me whether there was more to this incident than my son is telling me?

Kind regards

Show the letter to your son before you send it in case he wants to give you any additional information.

OpalTree · 01/12/2016 17:54

Good suggestions from TeenandTween

DoctorDonnaNoble · 02/12/2016 06:08

We don't do isolation officially. In an rare individual case where a student would regularly get suspended to avoid lessons it was created. However, we have compliant parents and students so detention works. However, I have worked in schools where there is isolation. Work was always expected and expected to be done. It is odd that this is not the case. Four hours of unguided reflection is not going to achieve very much at all. I hope you find out what happened.

lacebell10 · 02/12/2016 08:05

2 minutes late at dd school would be 10 min detention and a negative sim (equivalent of personal house points).

Original poster
C0lly · 02/12/2016 08:39

Thanks Teen I have contacted the school it is now school policy (not on their website though) that if a student is one min late the student will be put in reflection !!! No Doctor sitting in a room doing nothing is a complete waste of time I am arranging a meeting at the school for next week.

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TeenAndTween · 02/12/2016 09:24

Shock That's crazy. How on earth do they justify that? Persistent lateness maybe, but as a blanket rule?

fourcorneredcircle · 02/12/2016 09:34

Yeah, I'm with you and T&T, that's ridiculous. I can only imagine that the school has massive attendance issues? Or a persistent late to lessons culture that has lead to this. Not that either make it ok to have such an over the top reaction for a one off infringement.

Do come back and let us know what their justification is!

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