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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Please help me decipher an 11+ result

19 replies

sydenhamhiller · 12/10/2016 16:49

We've just received the DD's result for the grammar school entrance exam.
The way it is announced is: you get their results, and the historic cut off point. So DD got 224, and the historic cut off point is 215-220. Do you think we can breathe a sigh of relief, or too close to call?
March seems an awfully long way away suddenly...

OP posts:

hedwig2001 · 12/10/2016 16:53

I would read that as a definite pass. If the cut off has been 215-220 and she has 224, she has done better than the cut off. Well done to your daughter

TheColonelAdoresPuffins · 12/10/2016 16:55

Unless a new record is set this year for the cut off point she has passed

Pradaqueen · 12/10/2016 16:56

Try the 11+ forum under the 'collated cut offs' for your area for 2015 and this year. That way you'll know if you realistically will get something in March or sometime between March and next September.

We have an 11+ area here. A wiser mum than me is not putting her child through to the 'better' grammar owing to the fact that technically her child has enough to possibly get a place but when you consider that there might be a 40/50/60 point different between her child and the more able students she feels her child will almost certainly bump along the bottom at grammar which in itself is quite stressful for a child trying to keep up. You might want to consider if that applies to your area also. If it is a couple of points I wouldn't worry, but tens of points I would give it some thought.

misson · 12/10/2016 16:56

I would also read as a likely pass. Unless she is in a brilliant year. Afaik it's not certain until the offers are released.

user12785 · 12/10/2016 16:56

It's not a definite pass. The figures are the historic cut-off. It means she would have passed with that score in previous years, but I'm afraid you will have to wait to see if she has passed. It's very likely she has, but you cannot be absolutely sure. Good luck and hang on in there x

Pradaqueen · 12/10/2016 16:56

PS well done though!

Middleoftheroad · 12/10/2016 17:00

Which area are you in?
Go on the 11+ forum - it's a mine of information.

shouldwestayorshouldwego · 12/10/2016 17:02

What does the scale usually go up to? If to 230/240 then sounds great if it is 300/ 350 I would say more borderline as there are potentially a lot of girls around that region (assuming results normally distributed). I would be cautiously optimistic but put down a banker school too. Congratulations though she's done really well and sounds as if she is in with a good chance. Have a look on the elevenplusexams forum, they are likely to have the best info available.

Middleoftheroad · 12/10/2016 17:07

Various factors - number of sitters, birthrate, pp can come into play to bump scores up. Sometimes as much as 5 points. The forum will help you make sense of it all.

Original poster

sydenhamhiller · 12/10/2016 17:17

Thanks all.
It's out of 280, so she's done ok. I've been on 11+ forum and someone with a daughter in y7 this year has said as historic cut off 215-220, it will be a long summer for anyone between 212-224 -- just mentioning my DD's score freaked me out a little, know I am being nuts.
As for being borderline, and so struggling, I completely take that point, and something we are mulling over: whether better to feel top set of our local comp, than struggling at selective.
But my DS was on the waiting list for his super-selective grammar 2 years ago, and we worried a bit, but he's top/ top 1/4 for most classes, think so many kids apply, you can have 14 kids between each mark.

So many girls came out saying how easy it was, (including mine, thought she'd have scored higher!), so I am worried that more girls will have done better this year, pushing the historic cut-off score higher.

Man, it would almost have been easier if it was below the cut off, rather than this limbo...

OP posts:

youarenotkiddingme · 12/10/2016 17:24

Some good points here. Especially re previous cut off and being a lower entry. But it's also worth considering some children don't do brilliantly on tests and can have a really strong 3 areas and a poorer/weak area which pulls it down and in the grand scheme of things doesn't affect them in the classroom. That weaker area can have an effect though.

For example my DS secondary stream on overall cat scores. Ds ended up in second to top group based on this.

Except he scored 90/90/95th for number, spacial and NVR and 22nd for VR. So he struggled because despite being 'bright' he couldn't keep up with the written side of explaining his learning and with poor processing skills the workload and speed of the lessons.
In a new school and new year now which set on ability per subject. Ds is top set maths and computing, 2nd top for science and bottom for languages etc. He's much happier.

shouldwestayorshouldwego · 12/10/2016 19:15

You won't know until she goes. It will be easier to go from grammar to comp than the other way round.

nicp123 · 12/10/2016 20:52

What is the letter telling you? Seems weird as over here scores are disclosed only if the candidate doesn't pass. 'Historical cut-offs' won't tell you much as this year's scores are decided by this year's cohort.
There are other deciders to consider such as how many children with the same score leave within your catchment (if the rule applies of course) and how many people will turn down the offer of school place in March?
What are the rules in your area?

PettsWoodParadise · 12/10/2016 22:29

Well done to your DD SydenhamHiller. Sounds good to me. DD is in the same school I believe you are aiming at. You should get an offer on offer day or very soon after if past years are anything to go by. Last year loads of DD's friends said the same test was easy, it is quite deceptive so unless a freak year I wouldn't worry. I gather the qualifying score for Sept 2016 entry was marginally down on previous years (from 218 in 2015 to 215 in 2016) which would reflect some uncertainty at that time (Head and stuff in the press) about the school but I believe that is all in the past and lessons very very well learned. Apart from that the qualifying score (there is no pass mark as such) is fairly consistent within a few marks year after year. There was a record number of applicants this year but they haven't revealed how many more so if a lot that may throw things a bit but hopefully not to your DD's detriment.

DD is very very happy at the school and they are doing a fantastic job of educating her and keeping her happy. Feel free to PM me if it would be helpful at all.

prh47bridge · 13/10/2016 00:31

"Historic cut off" sounds like they take those with the highest scores rather than those scoring above a certain mark. If the cut off is normally between 215 and 220 you are in a good position and should get in unless there have been a lot of high scores this year. So I would say you can relax a little but it isn't over yet.

Original poster

sydenhamhiller · 13/10/2016 08:18

Thanks all, I think that's the conclusion I've come to...
If only she was about 228, I could sleep like a baby!
Appreciate all the feedback.

OP posts:

shouldwestayorshouldwego · 13/10/2016 08:56

feels her child will almost certainly bump along the bottom at grammar which in itself is quite stressful for a child trying to keep up.

I think though that it does depend on the child and also the extent of support that they have needed so far. If they have been at a small prep, have been tutored for 11+ or easily discouraged then I think that might be true. If they have been used to large classes, didn't do lots of tutoring or thrive on a little competition then being borderline might not be such an issue. Firstly they may not be borderline as others with sometimes years more preparation could struggle when that support is taken away. Secondly some people thrive more on competition than others. I personally dislike competition but my dd likes a challenge more. It also depends what the other school options are and how well you think that they suit your child.

LittleBoxes · 13/10/2016 08:57

Got the same letter yesterday and DD is at 223, so your DD is in a slightly better position than mine! Being a natural realist pessimist I'm seeing the score as borderline and therefore unlikely she'll get in, but what will be will be, I suppose. I'm not saying this to DD herself though, who, having been completely unruffled by the test and lead-up (she didn't have tutoring), is a bit upset about the score – she thought she'd done better, and wants to get the paper back so she can see where she went wrong (not that this is possible, of course!).

Luckily there's another, non-grammar school we really like too (we're in a neighbouring borough) so hopefully it'll be one or the other. Planning to forget about the whole thing until March now!

DoItTooJulia · 13/10/2016 09:15

It depends on so many things.

Are you in Birmingham? Because the Pupil Premium places are causing the scores to do funny things.

Aside from that you need to know that cut off scores are higher than last in scores. Cut off scores are the scores at which the last offer is made on offers day. The reality is that many more children are offered places off the waiting list after offers day (last in scores).

So let's say the school you like has an official cut off score of 225. The reality will be that the last child admitted will have a lower score than this. But they will have had to wait for those that are offered to accept/decline. One of the super selective in our area offered over 50 places after the cut off scores and the actual cut off score went down by 10 points. These scores are never published officially. (But the 11+ forum tends to collate them unofficially).

Because people don't realise this, the 'best' grammar school locally, had fewer parents put it down on the CAF, believing they wouldn't get in based on cut off scores. Well, that meant the score dropped significantly compared to previous years! Does that make sense?

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