Tiffins school, Kingston

[lilybetsy]

DS has just been offered a place from the W/L here. Anybody got any first hand experience as I am deeply conflicted about this...

cleo My DD found the staff cold and discouraging too, and she was not coming from a Prep. Presumably with 2000 applying whether they are nice or not, they don't bother although she felt they were positively trying to intimidate / discourage her. But as others have said with plenty of parents trigger happy on the appeals procedure whatever selection process they use it has to be measurably fair and so based on scores without any element of subjective judgement.

I'd heard the same about Tiffin - that children were tutored heavily for about two years to go there, and I would not have wanted to put DD through that. Comments from people who knew the school well made it all sound rather joyless. I'm sure lots of pupils have fun there and it's a great school but nothing I heard made me want DD to go there.

By the way I can't be bothered to dig it out at this hour but the top sets at Coombe, Greycourt and the other surrounding outstanding comps actually have very comparable results to Tiffin. Of course getting in to them if you are not lucky enough to live nearby and don't have the resources to move house can be impossible, another reason the local indies actually educate 30% of the children in the local boroughs, rather than the 7% nationally

whatwouldrondo: I think it's a shame that any school is perceived by potential pupils and their parents as cold and discouraging but with 2000 applying maybe they don't feel they have to bother with the PR bit. Private schools are definitely wanting you to like them when you visit but maybe because Tiffin is non-feeing paying and they are over-subscribed they feel the parents are competing to be at the school, rather than the school competing to get the fee-paying parents.

I'd heard Coombe was very good too. I don't know Greycourt. If those schools are getting comparable results maybe Tiffin will not be the must-go-school for too much longer.

And speaking of plumbers I actually got a place at my selective grammar via a process called the Thorne scheme. It wouldn't stand up to the appeals process now because it was largely based on teacher assessment but those on the borderline went off for a day of tests and interviews. Along with VR and NVR and interviews (which of course ironically favoured those of us who were bright but teachers had not discerned that because they didn't see beyond our learning difficulties then - and often now) we had to build towers and various tests of physical dexterity to find out whether we would be better suited by a vocational education (with no suggestion that was in any way less valued). Their judgement that I was better suited to academia has been validated subsequently

I think with certain sections of the parent community who make their judgments on schools based on league tables rather than what is right for their child the Tiffins will always have the brand by virtue of the selection process. It is the same with the private schools, some do not see beyond the notional hierarchy that would put for example KCS over KGS but they are both good schools that would enable a bright pupil to do equally well in exams and university entrance, both have pupils who get clean sweeps of As and entry to top courses at top units it is just KCS is able to be more selective and has more of them. In the end though your child will do best where they are happiest and that might be at KGS rather than KCS or indeed Tiffin which was the point I was making to OP*

DD's school doesn't get involved in league tables. It is one of the few schools now which retains a sibling policy and if the first child gets in subsequent brothers and sisters will be accepted on a lower mark for the 11+. For that reason they are never going to get the same results as totally academically selective schools. However they get their sweeps of A*/A too.

I very much went on my gut feeling when I visited the school. Two years prior to that I would have dismissed it as an option because it did have a reputation for not pushing too hard academically and DD is clever but needs a push in subjects she is not particularly interested in. As one of her teachers at her prep said, "she is so busy enjoying herself at school she sometimes forgets she has to work too."

When I visited the school I just loved it and I knew it would suit her. Academically it is moving up steadily, she's in the top set and doing well. They are giving the required push where it is needed! She also loves all the various extra-curricular activities and has had a wonderful first year. I couldn't be happier.

Disclaimer:Tiffin parent
OP-Firstly don't worry about coming from w/l as the headmistress said a few years back if they chose the next 150 in the cohort the GCSE results would be the same.The biggest difference between KGS and Tiffin is co-ed which is an important factor for some.I can not pretend but they really stretch the boys,some may not like this but they are very talented individuals who need stretching.A few posters seem to have criticised tutoring(now irrelevant) and foster a image of hothousing but this not the case as there is a lot of extracurricular activities and they involve everybody in music which is fantastic by the way.For those interested in oxbridge they get about 20 in each year whilst KGS is about 6.Another point is that there is strong sibling connections as many have older brothers at Tiffin and even sisters at TGS,I would say about a dozen in his class.Having a look at the parent list there seem to be about 40 doctors and a few academics.OP-my ds had offers from both Tiffin and KGS and I do not regret our decision but we also feel that KGS would have been a fine choice.Bottom line-Tiffin is good but a bit rough around the edges but teaching and co-cirricular is good.

Pop2, very useful inside information. Could you please clarify what you mean by " a bit rough around the edges "

I hear good things about Tiffins and I hear bad things. The recent change in entrance exam style should mean a different entrance cohort. I know many people who dislike it due to the significant % of Asians. The sports activities can be good but they often come second to their independent peers in sports like cricket as they don't have the facilities nor the coaching. You don't want to go to Tiffins if you want to be a winner at sports.
Then again I wouldn't pay for KGS compared with Tiffins being across the road. And both have sports fields at a distance rather than onsite which is a pain for games etc.

Now you come to mention it I have heard the same thing about the percentage of Asians at Tiffin Girls too. Someone mentioned that to me when I was talking about schools when DD was in Year 5. I wouldn't have applied anyway because I wanted co-ed and only co-ed.

I don't think any school should have a significant percentage of anything.

Pop2 I do not think highlighting the tutor culture is at all irrelevant. I assume you are not yet in Years 10 to 13? The families I know with DCs who have gone through Tiffin after intensive tutoring to get in have also involved external help at every crucial stage in their school career. Additional tutoring at GCSE and A level and even the use of "Consultants" to help with the writing of the personal statement for university applications, especially med school applications. At the indies it is made very clear that parents should keep their noses out of the process and a PS blatantly not written by a 17 year old and reflecting their personalities is counter productive. The details of tutors and consultants are well known in the parent community networks and parents who have children in the private school networks are very about some of the misinformation about what is required for exam and university application success that is allowed to take hold in the Tiffin community. Aside from anything else it is making those the be all and end all instead of valuing all the talents and opportunities in other areas that help our DCs develop their interests, personalities and identities. If your DC is going to be oblivious / thrive in that atmosphere then it is the right school but don't discount that culture as irrelevant.

@itsneverlate some parts could do with a lick of paint and the dining area is a prefab temporary building but it is being demolished to make way for a new one at a cost of £3m.
@whatwouldrondo I would read OP's original post.He/she wanted an idea of what the school was like and I think I answered the question.For the record my son has no tutor and the matter has never been discussed with other parents and although I am not naive to believe it is not happening, I don't think the tutor culture plays a major role.Also I am bit confused on how you make out Tiffin miss out on other "talents and opportunities" as there are many outside interests and clubs and these attributes are not the sole preserve of private schools.

Taking into account that Tiffin is free, the money you saved, can be spent hiring best possible coaches for extra -curriculum outside school. Though my DC attends highly sought after very selective school, we came to the conclusion that extra -curriculum club at this school cant provide the quality external provider can deliver. You are also in the position to choose the external provider among many, as the school club teacher you cant change.

Its also beneficial from the social point of view to go outside the school occasionally especially if its a single sex school your children attend

Pop I meant that the parents do not value those other areas of interest and indeed tend to steer their DCs towards STEM subjects even within the academic focus (though that is a trend at all schools it is more marked at Tiffin). Last year I understand there was just one pupil studying for each of art and music at A level (though it maybe that pupils who were seriously wanting to study those subjects went elsewhere for sixth form) . My experience of local schools stems from coming out the other side. No doubt we both have valid perspectives.

thank you so much for all your comments. we have been back to look again at tiffin and spoken to other parents. £18K + a year makes a HUGE difference to our family - ie it would literally be a huge squeeze to afford private school. i think we will accept Tiffin.

Is Tiffin an academy then? I only ask because I know they're recruiting for at least one position from final year university students, which I didn't think state schools could do.

£18k is just the base price too remember
it goes up every year
plus lunches
plus extras (trips, workshops etc..)

well done to your ds.

I believe it became an academy in the last couple of years.

Schools - both academies and LA run - can take on teacher trainees via the School Direct route. These are graduates who undertake their training primarily in school. Tiffin is part of a grouping of schools (Kingston School Direct Alliance) who work together to train teachers and the group includes both academies and LA run schools.

Ah thank you Sandy I didn't know that - I've only come across it being offered by independent schools before, and I presumed it was just that they had more flexibility rather than a specific scheme.

Sorry for de-railing OP!

No prob. It's interesting (well to me anyway) that when you see stats about 'unqualified teachers' this includes trainees working in schools like Tiffin. People often worry about these % but trainees (if properly supported) can be a big asset to a school and help them develop a future pipeline of teachers.

Tiffin is doing a good thing by supporting trainees in this way!

There is a lot of negativity around tutoring. I don't understand this. A good work ethic is something to be admired.

My DS1 was tutored. At first it was because I thought school wasn't really feeding his thirst for knowledge, and then it was specifically for Tiffin.

He We worked hard. I am not ashamed of this. He is going to Tiffin in September and I am very proud of him. We went on a journey and we achieved our goal.

I can't imagine not wanting to go to Tiffin.

OP, accept that place and come to Tiffin with us. It's going to be wonderful!

i think the negativity towards Tiffin tutoring is the racket surrounding it in previous years

• put your name down with "the Tiffin tutors" age 4
• then age 9 they assess your child and only select those who are probably going to get in anyway
• then groups of 6+ around a table paying £35 for 45 minutes each (that is some hourly rate!) doing paper after paper after paper of VR/NVR which was all about practice and speed at the Tiffin level of entry.

that is pretty scandalous!

thankfully with the change in exam that kind of tutoring will come to an end.

Plus tutoring surely affects who gets a place and who does not. Otherwise people would not pay.

If Grammar schools are supposed to be for the most able, tutoring will be throwing in a bias and will mean that some children who should otherwise have gone won't get their place. Unfortunately those children may well be from less well off families who could not afford the tutoring, or are not as aware of the need for tutoring or know how to access good tutors. Leaving Tiffin with a different income and ethnic profile compared with other nearby schools.

Amida my knowledge of the Tiffin process comes partly from parents whose DC, despite all that sitting round the table, failed to get places and who were sending their children to the back up private school. There was some discussion of what the W mother and daughter must have earned over the years. I assume that a similar discussion between Tiffin parents about the same tutor would have had a different feel.