Tiffins school, Kingston

[lilybetsy]

DS has just been offered a place from the W/L here. Anybody got any first hand experience as I am deeply conflicted about this...

Needsmore

Interested to hear why you think that the statement " most clever children in UK are educated in the state sector" could possibly NOT be true.

Her mother got the impression that they take only a very small percentage of prep school girls and think that if you can afford to pay for prep you can afford to pay for a private secondary.

Tiffin wouldn't give a monkeys where the girls came from, it's about who comes top in the exam. Many more girls apply to Tiffin from a much wider area and range of backgrounds than to the private secondaries and many of them will have been specifically cramming for the exam for years.

I don't think many prep school parents prepare their children so fiercely for Tiffin as they obviously have cash, so it almost certainly would be only one of their options rather than the be-all and end-all. And like the OP, even if they do receive an offer, they still may be in the privileged position to reject it, taking other factors like distance and extra-curricular into account.

I made no such statement. It was not something I feel qualified to argue. I just wanted to make the point that super selectives like Tiffin and SPGS are not typical of either sector.

And London generally can be different. When DS was in Yr2, EVERY child in his class had at least one Oxbridge educated parent. Weird. Not all the kids were particularly bright, but it would be a starting point that many schools elsewhere in the country might envy.

Other places can also be different. I have a friend who is an academic oooop north. University staff tend to send their children to a certain high performing comprehensive. The private school tends to be used by the parents of Tim-nice-but-dim, who enjoys playing rugby.

Overall, and with a dyslexic DD, I am far from convinced it is helpful to label kids at 11. They change so much and attributes like diligence and enthusiasm and perseverance count for so much. And they keep changing through University and beyond. One disadvantage of a superselective is if you slip a little in your secondary years is that you soon find yourself bumping along the bottom.

Coffeeismycupoftea: Of course most clever children are educated in the state sector because 90% of children are educated in the state sector, but that doesn't mean that percentage-wise they do better than privately educated children. Overall the best of the private schools get better results, along with the super selective grammars.

If prep school children can get into LU, G&L, SPGS, LEH, etc., I don't think you can describe them as "not clever enough".

Personally though I would never have wanted DD to go there.

I meant I wouldn't have wanted her to go to Tiffin.

Tiffin wouldn't give a monkeys where the girls came from

... Or indeed Coudn't. Ie they wouldn't be allowed to discriminate.

When DS was in Yr2, EVERY child in his class had at least one Oxbridge educated parent. Weird.

It seems more weird that you would actually know that as a fact!! Did you go round asking or was there a show of hands at parents evening or something???

No school can discriminate, but schools can choose. If they have 10 girls with identical marks and only three places left they have to choose.

I'd love to know which school had at least one Oxbridge-educated parent. I'm just being nosy. I don't have any children to sign up!

state schools can't choose.
if 10 girls with identical marks for 3 spaces were left, they have to go on distance.
and if 2 of the girls are twins in the same house with identical marks then they both have to get a place.

Cleo, I don't know how it works in your scenario but as sahd says it is illegal for them to choose. It will not be done on the basis of 'she went to a prep and can afford to go elsewhere'. And agree with sahd, how on earth did you know that re Oxbridge. I have no idea where parents at dcs' school went to uni and anyone who boasted to me about it would be first against the wall when I am queen

Ah, thanks amidawish, brilliant that they actually have to go down to twins. Suppose it was two kids in flats in the same building?

ha i don't know that one. whoever is nearest the front door ?!

SaHD. I am not weird, but you might be ungallant.

Lots of all class parties adn relatively small classes, so you knew everyone. And a bit like how Londoners all know which (suburban) school Boris Johnson went to, but don't know which London school Sadiq Khan attended.

Thinking about it, its odd. Oxbridge people tend to say " when I was at Oxford..." rather than "when I was at University..." which then seemed to lead onto a chorus of "which college..", in the same way as others (or more often, the same people) would say "when DH was at Eton..." I did not go to Oxbridge and was struck by this, so a bit like Cleo, I was interested. But it was only one class in one year, and would not happen again as London has become a lot more international.

The same applied to Paulina's. I might know which schools friends who attended London Day Schools went to, simply because it came up when we were considering senior schools and often after having known them for a while. They probably do not know where I went. However five mums in DDs year at the same school were Paulina's. I was not close to any, but somehow it would get mentioned. (And remembered.)

Presumably that is part of the private state debate. That you have an answer when asked "what school..."

I wasn't the poster who quoted the Oxbridge parents. I was just being curious about the school.

Thank you for explaining about distance and twins.

I will also explain to my friend whose daughter didn't get in that it was strictly on results. She just got the impression from her contacts with the school that they seemed a bit discouraging. Maybe they didn't mean to be and she misinterpreted them.

You are right, Needmoresleep. People often do say, "when I was at Oxford," and in a small class you know all the schools where your DCs are off to, and their siblings too. If mums have been to the same school, or the same type of school (convent in my case), that would tend to come out as well. You get to know everyone very well over seven years.

Of course Boris went to Slough Comprehensive. I remember a friend of mine telling an acquaintance that that was where he'd been to school. She came to tell me she couldn't believe it. She had been convinced he'd been privately educated ......

I may be ungallant but I didn't say you were weird, I said the situation of such knowledge was weird. And it is.

thinking about it I do tend to know which people went to oxbridge. they always mention it somehow.
like those who went to any well known school, they bring it up. a lot.

Teddy's Hall. By the way. In case you were wondering

Well my dh went there, but it was almost 20 years ago. It does stand out to me some of the things he encountered were very different from the learning experience of my average (shitty) comprehensive school. I think he was very lucky to have that education, and for free. I'm guessing an average comprehensive is not what you are conflicting over though.

Do you want your DCs to go to Teddy Hall, SADH?

Actually the way in which Tiffin had allowed their VR and NVR to become predictable and therefore tutorable meant that they were not getting the cleverest pupils. Selective indies and employers use VR and NVR as one measure in their selection process (Wimbledon High have actually gone over to it entirely with the aim off making theirs a process based on ability and not tutoring) but they invest a lot of money in tests that are developed to be unpredictable and therefore a more reliable test of ability. Tiffin, probably because of financial constraints given they have thousands applying, let them become predictable and by all accounts subjecting your child to hours / months / years of boring repetitive practise with limited educational value, except maybe learning to do boring repetitive tasks, you could improve the score. Of course the exceptionally bright could score highly without that but tales of pupils whose initial raw scores were only in the top 10% getting up to the required 3% with mind numbing repetition suggest that it was not a reliable test of ability. And the results at GCSE and A level ought to be a lot better if they were truly recruiting the top 3 %. Add In that lots of parents like Amdai either don't apply or decide not to send their child there because they are not prepared to subject their child to that and /or prefer the atmosphere / facilities at the indies and you have a lot of parents at those schools making financial sacrifices to give their children that opportunity.

I find it very sad having gone to a very selective grammar in the days before the tutoring industry got hold and known many friends from disadvantaged backgrounds who with the benefit of having their ability recognised via the selection process went on to achieve great things (including a couple f household names) From what my DCs tell me of the Tiffins there is a very different atmosphere there these days and those pupils moving from Tiffin to the indies at 16 find the atmosphere far more positive and inspiring.

Not really. I want them to go wherever they want to go whether that is to be a plumber or go to university or whatever.

I just asked because most Oxbridge parents I know want their children to follow in their footsteps.

I think plumbing is an excellent idea. They all seem to make a fortune, and look at the guy who started Pimlico Plumbers!