Maths A Level - Dd can't keep up with the Asian Students

[Etainagain]

Dd 17 is in her first year of A Level Maths. She attended state school up to the end of Year 11 and got an A* for her Maths GCSE. Maths was always something she enjoyed and she didn't need to put much work in to get a good grade. Dd was awarded an academic scholarship at an independent school which has a high number of Asian students. In her opinion, the Asian students are about three years ahead of the UK students (for science subjects also). There are 12 students in her Maths group and more than half of them are Asian (Chinese, Thai and Korean). Dd is really struggling at the moment. She said the teacher is hopeless and cannot work out most of the problems himself, let alone explain how to do them to the UK students. Mostly, the Asians work out the answers and then teach the teacher and the English kids how to do it. Dd feels that her teacher doesn't put in any effort because he doesn't need to. The Asian students are guaranteed top grades without any input from him. She really wants to get a good grade and is angry that, in her words, he 'doesn't give a damn'. One lesson he produced a list of questions and a girl asked whether he had made them up himself to which he replied 'of course not, you don't think I'd go to that much effort, do you?' I told him that Dd is not happy to be currently working at a Grade C and asked what she could do to improve. He didn't seem that bothered and said that she could attend the maths clinics at lunchtimes, but she said it is pointless because if he can't explain things in class then he won't be able to explain them in a clinic. He also suggested using My Maths, but Dd doesn't like that site.

Now, I'm wondering whether the real issue is that there is a huge jump between Edexcel GCSE and OCR Maths A Level (not sure whether there is a difference in boards, or whether OCR favours the Indie kids who did IGCSEs) and that Dd would struggle regardless of the teacher? Is A Level Maths something that she could teach herself? Does she just need to put more effort in? If it is the teaching that is weak, should I complain and how can I do so in a way that maintains good relations? Maybe the teacher has a difficult job dealing with such different levels of understanding in the class? Dd hates Maths now and is thinking of dropping it. It is VERY disappointing for her.

Unfortunatly I think it sounds like the maths teaching is quite poor & you need to look st moving your dd whilst it is still possible.

Why set work above A level? Who does this uness it is further maths? He should teach to an agreed lesson plan and syllabus. I would ask the Head of 6th Form if he is actually teaching the syllabus. No-one can work beyond the syllabus if they have not built up their knowledge so this is utterly ridiculous for the ordinary students. I would say A* is good enough preparation for A level (what else is there for the vast majority?) but the iGCSE did have further elements in it that were A level standard. The best girls at my DD's school were accelerated beyond GCSE and AS. Is there another class she could go into where the pace is slower?

This may, also, be a problem with changing school. It takes a while to settle into the teaching styles of new schools. It sounds like she is not used to sitting alongside Asian Maths whizz students. My DD found their intelligence in maths and science daunting, but held her own. If they have just arrived for 6th form, they can keep themelves to themselves. Most did at my DD's school and didn't really help anyone or join in with anything. The school loved their results and their money though!

I would not be impressed with a Head Teacher who cannot sort this out! They may be lovely and approachable but they are fobbing you off! Nicely.

Dd needs to spend more time trying to find solutions to her problems than sitting around moaning.

That sounds spot on-it is possible to sail through GCSEs hardly doing anything outside school but at A level that's not really possible any more. Your dd needs to decide if she actually wants to carry on with maths or not, and if she does she has to start treating it more seriously than she is at the moment. It doesn't sound like the teacher is necessarily doing a stellar job but unis won't make allowances for that when she gets her results. There are lots of past papers, notes, worked examples etc on the website below. Exam boards are less relevant in maths than other subjects. Any questions she tries (aqa, edexcel etc) will be good practice.
www.physicsandmathstutor.com/maths-revision/

Is her academic scholarship dependent on her attending all the practices? It seems daft that a struggling student wouldn't be taking opportunities for extra help.

I wouldn't pay for my DC to do A level maths with a teacher who had a psychology degree. (While private schools can hire who they want, one of the selling points of my DC's school is that they are taught by teachers who have degrees in relevant subjects.)

On the other hand, putting together comments from OP: all the maths teachers in the school are hopeless so no point attending maths clinics; the homework is too hard so no point trying it. And OP's DD doesn't like mymaths, so doesn't do the suggested practice questions on mymaths either. If this is a well-respected private school, I find it hard to believe that the maths department is really that poor - some of the blame has to taken by the pupil not doing homework or going to clinics.

DCs found that Khan Academy was really useful when they needed to revise/improve certain areas of Maths.
One DC was in a small class with several Asian (Thai) students and learnt a lot from them (both Maths and work ethic!)
Your real problem is the poor Maths teaching which is difficult to solve ... but Maths is certainly a subject where spending more time and working through as many problems as possible helps.

Thanks for the link Purple - looks good!

Fortunately, the state school pupils who joined the school and the overseas boarders have bonded really well, probably because they are all new to the school. So although there is a divide, it is more along the lines of the existing students and the newcomers. Whilst the overseas students do their best to help the UK students with their Maths, sometimes they whizz through the explanations a bit too quickly! The UK students help the overseas ones with subjects like Biology which can be a real challenge for them. So there is a good exchange between them. But Dd doesn't want to put too much pressure on her Asian friends. She feels they have enough to cope with themselves without spending too much time helping her.

I don't feel comfortable complaining and like to keep things positive if possible

Hmm ... I failed Maths O' level - but I'm pretty sure that within half an hour I could find half a dozen brilliant maths websites that would cover the whole of your DD's syllabus. She has an academic scholarship - why can she not do the same? Why do you have to find them for her?

And you say she's missing the maths clinics because she doesn't want to let down the sports team?

Perhaps you both need to be more proactive? She needs to focus on what needs prioritising and you need to be in constant dialogue with the school and pin them down to a clear explanation of their aims. It's not necessarily a question of complaint - but finding the best way forward so that an academic scholar can fulfill her potential there and do the school credit.

If it's a single maths A level class, it seems a bit crap to be going beyond the level of half the class (and the teacher!) in an attempt to keep the other half occupied.

It does sound like your daughter could be doing more to help herself (there are some maths teachers on YouTube as well, e.g. Mr Hegarty - sometimes just hearing someone else's explanation can be really helpful), but it also sounds like someone needs to tell this teacher to calm down and stick to the syllabus. And provide enrichment material as necessary, rather than as a starting point.

There is another maths group which is also made up of UK and overseas students. In terms of ability, it would make sense to group the students according to level. However, that would mean that all the overseas students would be in one group and all the UK students in another. Clearly that would not be satisfactory.

I like Mr Hegarty Atia. Thank you. I think I found him before on Youtube but just presumed he only did GCSE videos!

She should type examsolutions into Google and she will find a website that has videos of every possible topic in A level maths. There are also links to past papers and video solutions of past exam paper questions. She should watch the videos of all the topics she finds tricky.

If you can't find it, message me and I will send you the link

It's the teaching not the students that is the problem here.

DS went to a sixth form which had a high intake of overseas, mainly Asian, students. He was very much in the minority in the further maths class. His perception was that they had covered much of the Y12 material before and they sailed through with only a few difficulties caused by language. However in the second year things changed. Their head start had expired and they seemed not to flourish with the teaching style. DS felt that the teachers tended to ignore the overseas students somewhat as their grades did not affect league tables .

Definitely get your DD to buddy up with one of the abler mathematicians by sitting next to them. My DS did this at the beginning of Year 12 and has been able to bridge the gap and now there is a 50/50 exchange of help. He is now in Year 13 but found the leap from GCSE to AS Maths and FM really tough but worked very hard and did well in his AS exams. There were some in his class who seemed to have already covered the AS course before Year 12 which did have an impact on the teachers' expectations of the rest of the class. This is difficult to address - perhaps suggest to the head that the class be split into two separate sets. Also, an idea is to look at the text book at home and self-study the tricky topics, not ideal I know.

Dd said her teacher was going through a problem today and Dd pointed out that he was doing it incorrectly to which he said 'well nothing new there'. Then he made a comment about how pleased he was to have Chinese students in the class because he needs 'maths geniuses', to which Dd said that she might be a genius for all he knows and he said 'well not a maths genius that's for sure'! Dd really can't stand him because she said he doesn't seem to care less whether they are doing well or not. Recently he missed a whole week of lessons without any explanation or any work set. Dd said she saw him around the school, so he wasn't ill. One of her classmates, a very bright girl who wants to be a doctor, told the teacher that she is really upset that her maths is going so badly as she needs good grades to get into medicine and he told her to forget it because it's not going to happen! Sometimes I wonder whether he's just got a very odd sense of humour.

She isn't entirely sure what she wants to do Dreamgirls but it is likely to be something involving science (she wanted to study dentistry for years but realises that it is very competitive). What happened when you contacted the school about chemistry? Did it make a difference?

sorry - have to go back a page, but an A isn't mediocre. A students generally do well at Maths A Levels (although of course some do get below a C) but most get top grades.

An A at Maths GCSE is a different matter - not a good predictor at all about how well you'll do at A Level maths.

Her teacher, however, sounds pretty poor. If he's struggling with AS Maths that really is a concern.

Can anyone recommend any useful sites (such as the Khan academy link or the Googlesolutions) that are for A-level physics rather than maths ???

Thanks

So she won't go to the Maths clinic, won't go on My Maths and won't do her homework.
To get a good grade at A'level students need to take responsibility for their own learning and access extra support when they need to. Her behaviour is that of a C grade student.
Sorry but your efforts would be better directed at getting your daughter to work hard rather than complain hard.

I have two girls, youngest is highly competitive and is always trying to improve regardless of the competition, eldest however only shines when ahead of competition - so if she falls behind she is likely to give up but if ahead tries hard to stay ahead. Just wondering if part of the problem is that her confidence has taken a knock since moving from top student in GCSE to bottom half of A-Level due to enhanced level of other students.

I was one of those Asian kids. Did my secondary schooling in South East Asia then boarding school in the UK for A Levels. The Math curriculum is just pitched higher in SEA, so I spent six months acclimatising to having to do math in English and sat for Math A Levels in the summer then moved on to Further Math for the 2nd year of A Levels.

It sounds like the teacher is basically coasting in class because he doesn't actually have to do any teaching and the school is letting him get away with it. However, equally your daughter needs to take ownership of her education. She will come across crap teachers and tutors both in A levels and further on in University so she has to learn to be resourceful and teach herself - it takes time and effort but it is doable. Get hold of workbooks and past papers with mark schemes and keep practising.

I know it is galling to pay fees and not get the quality of education you are expecting, by all means keep pursuing the school to improve things but realistically unless she puts in the slog now, she will start running out of time to learn the curriculum before having to sit for the exam. Her Asian friends will be willing to help, so do take them up on it and ask them to slow down if needed. I certainly did a lot of informal peer tutoring in boarding school and made some really good friends that way.

Another vote here for examsolutions.net, an amazing resource.

I would disagree with the comment a previous poster made about there being a big jump from GCSE to AS but not from AS to A2. I think it is just as big a jump from AS to A2. The C1 and C2 papers are pretty straightforward for students, especially if they have done the OCR FSMQ additional maths in Y11. C3 and C4 are in a different league and take practice to get really good at.

Mondrian I think you are absolutely right, her confidence has definitely taken a knock. She's always been one of the top pupils in the Maths class and now she's down at the bottom! I'm not sure what we could do to get her confidence back. Perhaps if she does put more effort in herself and sees improvements she'll bounce back.

Thanks to everyone who suggested examsolutions.net. It looks like a great site and it mentioned m4ths.com which also looks good (I purchased the A level DVD from that site - seems comprehensive).

Running it's great to hear an Asian student's perspective. Just wondered whether you took A2 as well as Further Maths and whether you found these relatively easy too? Dd said that the very bright overseas students in her class are struggling with Further Maths which has come as a shock to the UK students as they didn't think they'd have difficulty with anything involving numbers (and a relief for Dd who is relieved she didn't take it now).

I did A levels before A2 existed so did a combination of math and stats for my complete math A level, then did further Math and Further Stats as another A Level.

Further Maths was challenging but I really enjoyed it. I'm not naturally gifted at math so have had to work at it but it was immensely satisfying. The stereotype that Asian kids are gifted with numbers is misleading. The Asian curriculum places a heavy emphasis on math practice. The prevailing view is that everyone should be able to do math because you can practice math like any other skill.