Maths A Level - Dd can't keep up with the Asian Students

[Etainagain]

Dd 17 is in her first year of A Level Maths. She attended state school up to the end of Year 11 and got an A* for her Maths GCSE. Maths was always something she enjoyed and she didn't need to put much work in to get a good grade. Dd was awarded an academic scholarship at an independent school which has a high number of Asian students. In her opinion, the Asian students are about three years ahead of the UK students (for science subjects also). There are 12 students in her Maths group and more than half of them are Asian (Chinese, Thai and Korean). Dd is really struggling at the moment. She said the teacher is hopeless and cannot work out most of the problems himself, let alone explain how to do them to the UK students. Mostly, the Asians work out the answers and then teach the teacher and the English kids how to do it. Dd feels that her teacher doesn't put in any effort because he doesn't need to. The Asian students are guaranteed top grades without any input from him. She really wants to get a good grade and is angry that, in her words, he 'doesn't give a damn'. One lesson he produced a list of questions and a girl asked whether he had made them up himself to which he replied 'of course not, you don't think I'd go to that much effort, do you?' I told him that Dd is not happy to be currently working at a Grade C and asked what she could do to improve. He didn't seem that bothered and said that she could attend the maths clinics at lunchtimes, but she said it is pointless because if he can't explain things in class then he won't be able to explain them in a clinic. He also suggested using My Maths, but Dd doesn't like that site.

Now, I'm wondering whether the real issue is that there is a huge jump between Edexcel GCSE and OCR Maths A Level (not sure whether there is a difference in boards, or whether OCR favours the Indie kids who did IGCSEs) and that Dd would struggle regardless of the teacher? Is A Level Maths something that she could teach herself? Does she just need to put more effort in? If it is the teaching that is weak, should I complain and how can I do so in a way that maintains good relations? Maybe the teacher has a difficult job dealing with such different levels of understanding in the class? Dd hates Maths now and is thinking of dropping it. It is VERY disappointing for her.

[GruntledOne]

I think you need to talk to the school about the teacher.

But your DD should look online. The daughter of a friend of mine was refused entry to her school's A Level Maths course and therefore did AS level online. When she got an A*, the school suddenly found a place for her for A2.

[What2]

Sadly an A* at maths GCSE is just a mediocre grade

[MrsJorahMormont]

I am completely horrified that your daughter is being taught by someone who doesn't even have a maths degree. That is INSANE. As others have said, it's a huge jump from GCSE to A-Level. This teacher sounds awful and like he's coasting on the ability and work ethic of the kids in his class.

You need to get your daughter some extra support and get her working at full steam but you also need to complain to the school. They may act like they are doing her a favour by giving her a bursary but actually she would be better off returning to a state school with a competent teacher.

And yes, I can absolutely believe the overseas Asian pupils will be miles ahead. I don't doubt it for a second. Their whole attitude to learning is different from British kids - they place enormous value on education and their families have incredibly high expectations, especially if they are paying for them to come to a British school. I can only imagine how horrified their parents would be to know that they are paying a fortune in fees for their children to teach the teacher!

[PurpleDaisies]

I am completely horrified that your daughter is being taught by someone who doesn't even have a maths degree.

There are other subjects that link well to teaching maths (I'm a physics graduate who also teaches A level maths) but psychology is a stretch. As Nobel says, schools are desperate.

[SuburbanRhonda]

what2

Was thinking exactly the same.

A* is mediocre? Doesn't even make sense.

[fatowl]

My dd2 is doing Maths A-level at an international school in Asia.
There are 14 in her class, only three girls and she is the only European girl (plus two European boys).
Like your DD she got an A* at GCSE

She is struggling, she got a D for her AS, and is resitting in June alongside her A2. She needs a B to get on her preferred Engineering degree.
We are fortunate though that her teachers are very good, but the classes move very fast and she says she will often be the only one who doesn't get it.

But it is the teacher/dept at fault, they need to teach all the students (not just the most able) - this is true whether you are paying fees or not.
If you get no joy from the teacher, go to the HOD or, if an independent school, the next level up, who will be the head if it's a small school, or if it's a bigger school like ours will be called Director of Studies/Curriculum or something like that.

[noblegiraffe]

The majority of maths teachers don't have a maths degree. You don't need one to train as a maths teacher, just a degree with a significant proportion of maths. Psychology can be mathsy, but it's also possible to do a foundation course to get your maths up to scratch before training.

Of course if it's an independent school, the teacher doesn't even have to be qualified, let alone maths-qualified.

[MrsJorahMormont]

Purple / noble - yes I can totally see how having a degree in physics or engineering or something related could work. But Psychology does indeed seem a stretch!

[Bolognese]

Sadly an A at maths GCSE is just a mediocre grade*

To achieve an A at maths is not particularly hard, it does not show a great ability in Mathematics. I know several 'average' children who could have done the 'old' maths gcse at age 12/13 and got an A without to much hassle.

[grumpysquash2]

If I was paying £££ for a private school I'd be pretty fucked off that my child was being taught A level maths by a psychology graduate

Yes, but that is the case for private schools. Teachers don't have to have a relevant degree. They just hire who they want. Obviously sometimes this is very high calibre teachers. But not always and they don't have to comply with the requirements that state schools have.

[My dad spent his whole career teaching at a very posh private school in London. His degree was in Physics, he taught Physics, but in the later years also had to teach Biology (he hadn't even done O level) and also Geology (is that even a subject at school?)]

[fatowl]

Grumpy- my dh did geology at school, definitely a subject.

Teachers often end up teaching outside their speciality, my original degree and PGCE is in MFL.
I now teach English (not in the UK)
I am now more comfortable teaching English than MFL as I familiar with the syllabus and content.

I doesn't make me a bad teacher, but you do need a well organised department and good support for non specialists

hoping no one ever asks me to teach maths

[Themodernuriahheep]

Op, as one person has already said, in many independent schools they take math GCSEs in y10 and y 11 is indeed bridging.year 12 is still hard for those who have been in the English system.

In DS's school it is noticeable that
a) the far eastern and e European kids work far far far harder than the English ones. I mean they spend hours during the week and at weekends sorting out what they don't understand until they do.
B) the school takes in more at 6th form. The far eastern ones may already have done the AS curriculum. And they have nearly all spent four taught hours a day doing maths before they came. Before homework.

It is hardly surprising they do much better.

Your daughter however should do all the extra the school provides. Only then should you complain, unless you have witnesses to show he does not know his subject, not just your dd. She will also have to spend a lot of time really focusing on it.

Sorry if this sounds tough, but it is the reality. If she does she will go back to enjoying it and a maths ALevel is the most valuable. But it is also the one has had the most increasing uptake, for that reason and the pressure to find teachers is high.

[Grikes]

Hmmm. My dd the Chinese girl in the class is forever helping her non Asian friends in maths. Her non Asian friends are always helping her with her MFL and Humanities subjects. My suggestion is make friends with the Asians save money on the tutor. O btw maths is not only the preserve of the Asians. My dd's best friend is Russian and she is also top of the class. Although if the Asians have just stepped of the plane. Yes in China they are about 3 years ahead. That said they understand how to answer the question but may not be able to apply the concept unless taught.

[lunar1]

It sounds like you dd may have just done what was needed to pass her GCSEs, where as many other students will really study the subject giving them a big head start on a levels.

[Wriggle45]

Is echo everyone else in saying it is a big jump from GCSE to A-level... I took the 3rd year of GCSEs many moons ago and we were still taught the same O-level syllabus regardless to take away that gap! I do think however Maths is probably one of the few subjects where you can teach yourself as doing examples is best way to learn!!! There must be more than one maths teacher at the school?? If she feels she can't talk to her teacher could she go and speak to head of maths? If she is motivated to get on top of the issue she could ask for revision worksheets.... And then use the clinics to force him to explain bits she needs.
One other thought.... Not sure how the A-level she is doing is structured but it may be the stuff she is doing so far has been more conceptually difficult for her.... Eg I never got Stats anywhere near as easily as mechanics (this continued all the way through.... I did double maths and maths degree.... First time penny dropped on stats was doing stats course on my MsC which was aimed at non maths bods!!!)

[ThenLaterWhenItGotDark]

If what your dd says is true, then I'd be very cross and go in guns-a-blazing.

I'd make sure it is exactly as she describes it first though, as it is far from uncommon for students not doing as well as others to say "the teacher is rubbish, doesn't know how to teach etc etc"

If what she has said is verifiable, then she'd be right. But check first.

[ThenLaterWhenItGotDark]

(Ps I think the A* grade being described as mediocre is perhaps in comparison to similar, but not the same, qualifications at similar ages in other countries. Sadly, it's true for a lot of countries, and a lot of subjects)

[Badbadbunny]

Sadly an A at maths GCSE is just a mediocre grade

A maths teacher/tutor we know says that the 11+ Maths papers are similar to the GCSE foundation, so passing the 11+ at aged 10 is roughly equivalent to a C grade at GCSE level six years later, so, yes, it's not particularly hard to get a top grade in Maths.

[Badbadbunny]

The teacher does indeed need to teach to the curriculum and that means spending time teaching the OP's child and those like her first and foremost to keep them up to standard. If that means the more advanced kids are bored or need to be given other work to do quietly during lessons, then that's what needs to be done.

Our niece had a similar problem with A level German. She got A at GCSE and was in a very small group of less than 10 doing A level in the school's sixth form, with just one other "British" pupil, all the others either being German themselves (it was a boarding school) or with a German parent, so they were head and shoulders above my niece from day 1. The teacher concentrated on them because they were the majority and they were being taught in a completely manner because they had to "dumb down" their answers to pass a British A level in a subject they knew inside out so were bring taught how to pass the exam rather than being taught the subject. My sister had countless phone calls and emails with the teacher but it didn't improve, then she started talking to the HOD, again, nothing, and finally the head, who likewise did nothing. Eventually, she withdrew her daughter and took her to a different school where she excelled again.

Whilst talking/complaining to the school seems the sensible answer, in a lot of cases, the school just ignore you and do what they want anyway.

[educatingarti]

Bunny - not quite true about 11+. I'd say the hardest questions on 11+ maths are at an equivalent level to grade C GCSE, but not all of them. Also there are some topics included at GCSE not included in 11+.

[yomellamoHelly]

This happened to my dh 25 years ago. Massive leap between GCSE and A level. He ended up changing subject.
Can you buy the revision guides for further maths and the a levels from amazon? It's also really easy to find practice questions on line for whichever subject you're revising and youtube is great for tutorials.
My son hates Mymaths too, but there's plenty of other stuff available if you look for it. Your dd just needs a bit of oomph to go find it.

[ProfGrammaticus]

Many of the other kids probably did further or additional maths at GCSE (and got A^) which will be helping them bridge the gap.

Your DD needs to work harder, do lots of practice questions until she does get it and use MyMaths, tough shit if she "doesn't like it."

Having said that, my boys are at an independent school, ALL the maths teachers have maths degrees and I'd be inwilling to payimpressed if they didn't.

[Etainagain]

Some really useful points raised here. Dd said it’s OCR not OCR Mei (never heard of that before!).

Dd complained to the Head of Sixth Form around November time. Head of Sixth Form seemed to take her complaint seriously and observed one of the lessons for a period of time (not whole lesson). Nothing changed. Now other parents have complained to the school and the Head of Sixth Form has offered to observe a lesson again. It seems that all the UK students are not achieving the results they had hoped for or expected. In fairness to the teacher, it must be very difficult teaching a group of students with such different levels of ability. He sets very challenging work for the class which is pitched at the level of the overseas students. Dd finds the homework virtually impossible and often just doesn’t bother trying. Dd says that the examples in the textbook are ridiculously simple compared to the stuff they do in class/homework. She finds the questions on past papers much easier than the work he sets. I suggested that he’s working them to a level beyond A level and that isn’t a bad thing because the actual exam will feel easy in comparison, but she says he’s just confusing the UK students and putting them off the subject altogether. Thing is, he gives the class these very hard problems and then starts working through them only to realise that he’s done it all wrong and then tells them to ignore everything he has said!

Both Head Teacher and Deputy have Maths degrees, but don’t do any teaching (they are both lovely and very approachable - Deputy seems to be semi-retired, Head Teacher seems very impressive). Existing students say that Maths department has gone downhill rapidly in last couple of years after the loss of a couple of great teachers and many of those who want to study Maths at A level will be looking to study elsewhere for sixth form because of this.

[Etainagain]

I will have a chat to Dd this evening and suggest that she needs to use the resources available to her and give it her best shot before we complain. I don't feel comfortable complaining and like to keep things positive if possible. Despite poor teaching (according to Dd and other students) in 2 subjects - but outstanding teaching in the other 2 - Dd really loves the school and has made some wonderful friends and it would be hard to take her out now.

Although Dd has an Academic Scholarship, she is very sporty and belongs to every sports team. I don't get the feeling that she is put under pressure to take part in all the matches, but, equally, she is a valuable team member and she feels that she doesn't want to let anyone down. Because the sports stuff clashes with the Maths Clinics, she says that she can't attend any clinics and doesn't see much point anyway because in her view all of the maths teachers are hopeless and won't be able to help. However, I think she needs to cut some of the activities out and attend the clinics and see whether they are of any use.

Apart from MyMaths and Khan Academy, are there any other good online resources?

Very impressed to read about the girl who taught herself AS maths and it is good to hear that Maths is one subject that you can teach yourself. Dd needs to spend more time trying to find solutions to her problems than sitting around moaning. Hoping some of the overseas students work ethic will rub off on her!