Maths A Level - Dd can't keep up with the Asian Students

[Etainagain]

Dd 17 is in her first year of A Level Maths. She attended state school up to the end of Year 11 and got an A* for her Maths GCSE. Maths was always something she enjoyed and she didn't need to put much work in to get a good grade. Dd was awarded an academic scholarship at an independent school which has a high number of Asian students. In her opinion, the Asian students are about three years ahead of the UK students (for science subjects also). There are 12 students in her Maths group and more than half of them are Asian (Chinese, Thai and Korean). Dd is really struggling at the moment. She said the teacher is hopeless and cannot work out most of the problems himself, let alone explain how to do them to the UK students. Mostly, the Asians work out the answers and then teach the teacher and the English kids how to do it. Dd feels that her teacher doesn't put in any effort because he doesn't need to. The Asian students are guaranteed top grades without any input from him. She really wants to get a good grade and is angry that, in her words, he 'doesn't give a damn'. One lesson he produced a list of questions and a girl asked whether he had made them up himself to which he replied 'of course not, you don't think I'd go to that much effort, do you?' I told him that Dd is not happy to be currently working at a Grade C and asked what she could do to improve. He didn't seem that bothered and said that she could attend the maths clinics at lunchtimes, but she said it is pointless because if he can't explain things in class then he won't be able to explain them in a clinic. He also suggested using My Maths, but Dd doesn't like that site.

Now, I'm wondering whether the real issue is that there is a huge jump between Edexcel GCSE and OCR Maths A Level (not sure whether there is a difference in boards, or whether OCR favours the Indie kids who did IGCSEs) and that Dd would struggle regardless of the teacher? Is A Level Maths something that she could teach herself? Does she just need to put more effort in? If it is the teaching that is weak, should I complain and how can I do so in a way that maintains good relations? Maybe the teacher has a difficult job dealing with such different levels of understanding in the class? Dd hates Maths now and is thinking of dropping it. It is VERY disappointing for her.

[annandale]

It's amazing what one experience of successfully learning something independently can do. It sounds as if the teacher is at sea tbh, I hope they change things at school but it sounds as if your DD has learned something important already.

[crazycatguy]

I can only speak for Korean kids as I used to live there, but they attended school in the city I lived in between 8am and 5pm and then practically all of them attended English tuition or math tuition, or something else educational until about 10pm. Then they did homework.

Korean kids are quite advanced by our standards, but because their childhoods are academically drilled, stress-filled and completely devoid of enjoyment.

[MrsJorahMormont]

Great news Etain and well done to your DD for kicking it up a notch.

BUT I would still be having a word with school and possibly trying to make a collective complaint with other unhappy parents. I think the maths teacher sounds like a prick tbh and the way he is speaking to his pupils isn't appropriate. He sounds really unprofessional in just about every way.

[AtiaoftheJulii]

Really good to hear Etain, well done to her

[PreAdvent13610]

Fantastic, news.
Do try and get her to go to the Maths clinic, at the very least she can show the teacher what she has been doing online.

[PurpleDaisies]

That's brilliant etain. Its great she's found some determination and motivation to get the problem sorted. I hope the school can sort out things better on their end too. Really good luck to her.

[Etainagain]

Well I was absolutely delighted to see her working so hard last night. She was up until after 11 teaching herself and she seemed really proud of her achievements. I do hope that this is a turning point because she needs to develop her independent learning skills if she is to have any chance of success with A levels/HE.

I'm just so pleased that I turned to MN for some wise advice about this! Huge thanks to you all.

[maryso]

Etain, that's great to hear. The more control she feels, and it looks as if that is starting to happen, the faster she will get there. Possible a valuable lesson for life, if only the toll on we mothers were less, while they're at it...

[Gruach]

That's excellent news.

I spend more time than I'd like trying to persuade a teen that they need to take more responsibility for their learning - glad to see it's worked for someone else.

[Etainagain]

Maryso good point actually about it being better to have more accomplished peers. If the class was moving too slowly and she was ahead of the others, she would probably be complaining more.

There's been a change of attitude for the better since I posted on here. I told her that I'd asked for advice about this on MN and that the general consensus seems to be that she has to try the strategies her teacher has suggested, and even if he isn't the best teacher, she has no other option but to get on with it. The chances of the school giving the class another teacher are practically zero and so she just has to teach herself. This blunt approach seems to have worked.

I emailed her all the website addresses recommended on this thread. Initially said that she wouldn't have time to plough through them all, but last night I found her teaching herself maths on one of the websites suggested (physicsandmathstutor.com) which she said is fantastic! She also really likes the other sites suggested and I'm sensing a little more positivity on her part. I just hope it continues!

[maryso]

Etain, the fact is that she is where she is. Frankly there will be a sea of Europeans, South Asians, et al banging home further what you attribute currently to East Asians, should she consider doing Maths beyond school.

For the average student, there is nothing asked at AS and A2 that cannot be 'mastered' by self study, even before the days of online support resources. As for teacher competence, you chose the school, and while there is always some tinkering possible, you chose to accept their educational judgements. it is the same school that deemed her suitable for sixth form Maths, over the multitude of options suitable for dentistry.

If she likes the subject, she should work a little better, as an investment for her future. Closing down, by refusing clinics and online resources, will ensure disappointment. Nothing needs to be easy, just doable. Achievement, and confidence, are all within her gift. Having more accomplished peers is an advantage. Think how much better it is to be dragged upwards, than the solitude and tedium of dragging others along.

[Runningwithacheesegrater]

I did A levels before A2 existed so did a combination of math and stats for my complete math A level, then did further Math and Further Stats as another A Level.

Further Maths was challenging but I really enjoyed it. I'm not naturally gifted at math so have had to work at it but it was immensely satisfying. The stereotype that Asian kids are gifted with numbers is misleading. The Asian curriculum places a heavy emphasis on math practice. The prevailing view is that everyone should be able to do math because you can practice math like any other skill.

[Etainagain]

Mondrian I think you are absolutely right, her confidence has definitely taken a knock. She's always been one of the top pupils in the Maths class and now she's down at the bottom! I'm not sure what we could do to get her confidence back. Perhaps if she does put more effort in herself and sees improvements she'll bounce back.

Thanks to everyone who suggested examsolutions.net. It looks like a great site and it mentioned m4ths.com which also looks good (I purchased the A level DVD from that site - seems comprehensive).

Running it's great to hear an Asian student's perspective. Just wondered whether you took A2 as well as Further Maths and whether you found these relatively easy too? Dd said that the very bright overseas students in her class are struggling with Further Maths which has come as a shock to the UK students as they didn't think they'd have difficulty with anything involving numbers (and a relief for Dd who is relieved she didn't take it now).

[ChopsticksandChilliCrab]

Another vote here for examsolutions.net, an amazing resource.

I would disagree with the comment a previous poster made about there being a big jump from GCSE to AS but not from AS to A2. I think it is just as big a jump from AS to A2. The C1 and C2 papers are pretty straightforward for students, especially if they have done the OCR FSMQ additional maths in Y11. C3 and C4 are in a different league and take practice to get really good at.

[Runningwithacheesegrater]

I was one of those Asian kids. Did my secondary schooling in South East Asia then boarding school in the UK for A Levels. The Math curriculum is just pitched higher in SEA, so I spent six months acclimatising to having to do math in English and sat for Math A Levels in the summer then moved on to Further Math for the 2nd year of A Levels.

It sounds like the teacher is basically coasting in class because he doesn't actually have to do any teaching and the school is letting him get away with it. However, equally your daughter needs to take ownership of her education. She will come across crap teachers and tutors both in A levels and further on in University so she has to learn to be resourceful and teach herself - it takes time and effort but it is doable. Get hold of workbooks and past papers with mark schemes and keep practising.

I know it is galling to pay fees and not get the quality of education you are expecting, by all means keep pursuing the school to improve things but realistically unless she puts in the slog now, she will start running out of time to learn the curriculum before having to sit for the exam. Her Asian friends will be willing to help, so do take them up on it and ask them to slow down if needed. I certainly did a lot of informal peer tutoring in boarding school and made some really good friends that way.

[Mondrian]

I have two girls, youngest is highly competitive and is always trying to improve regardless of the competition, eldest however only shines when ahead of competition - so if she falls behind she is likely to give up but if ahead tries hard to stay ahead. Just wondering if part of the problem is that her confidence has taken a knock since moving from top student in GCSE to bottom half of A-Level due to enhanced level of other students.

[PreAdvent13610]

So she won't go to the Maths clinic, won't go on My Maths and won't do her homework.
To get a good grade at A'level students need to take responsibility for their own learning and access extra support when they need to. Her behaviour is that of a C grade student.
Sorry but your efforts would be better directed at getting your daughter to work hard rather than complain hard.

[BackforGood]

Can anyone recommend any useful sites (such as the Khan academy link or the Googlesolutions) that are for A-level physics rather than maths ???

Thanks

[ninja]

sorry - have to go back a page, but an A isn't mediocre. A students generally do well at Maths A Levels (although of course some do get below a C) but most get top grades.

An A at Maths GCSE is a different matter - not a good predictor at all about how well you'll do at A Level maths.

Her teacher, however, sounds pretty poor. If he's struggling with AS Maths that really is a concern.

[Etainagain]

She isn't entirely sure what she wants to do Dreamgirls but it is likely to be something involving science (she wanted to study dentistry for years but realises that it is very competitive). What happened when you contacted the school about chemistry? Did it make a difference?

[Etainagain]

Dd said her teacher was going through a problem today and Dd pointed out that he was doing it incorrectly to which he said 'well nothing new there'. Then he made a comment about how pleased he was to have Chinese students in the class because he needs 'maths geniuses', to which Dd said that she might be a genius for all he knows and he said 'well not a maths genius that's for sure'! Dd really can't stand him because she said he doesn't seem to care less whether they are doing well or not. Recently he missed a whole week of lessons without any explanation or any work set. Dd said she saw him around the school, so he wasn't ill. One of her classmates, a very bright girl who wants to be a doctor, told the teacher that she is really upset that her maths is going so badly as she needs good grades to get into medicine and he told her to forget it because it's not going to happen! Sometimes I wonder whether he's just got a very odd sense of humour.

[FordPerfect]

Definitely get your DD to buddy up with one of the abler mathematicians by sitting next to them. My DS did this at the beginning of Year 12 and has been able to bridge the gap and now there is a 50/50 exchange of help. He is now in Year 13 but found the leap from GCSE to AS Maths and FM really tough but worked very hard and did well in his AS exams. There were some in his class who seemed to have already covered the AS course before Year 12 which did have an impact on the teachers' expectations of the rest of the class. This is difficult to address - perhaps suggest to the head that the class be split into two separate sets. Also, an idea is to look at the text book at home and self-study the tricky topics, not ideal I know.

[PeaStalks]

It's the teaching not the students that is the problem here.

DS went to a sixth form which had a high intake of overseas, mainly Asian, students. He was very much in the minority in the further maths class. His perception was that they had covered much of the Y12 material before and they sailed through with only a few difficulties caused by language. However in the second year things changed. Their head start had expired and they seemed not to flourish with the teaching style. DS felt that the teachers tended to ignore the overseas students somewhat as their grades did not affect league tables .