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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Year 10 parents evening - such pressure to get As and A*s, when a C is a pass

150 replies

BigSandyBalls2015 · 22/01/2016 09:23

Sorry if that sounds defeatist and lacking in ambition for DD. She's doing well, she's taking 11 GCSEs and she's on target to pass all of them at C or above, but last night the pressure was seriously on for her to achieve the As and A*s that are her predicted grades at the end of year 11.

This is more for the school isn't it? Their figures/data. DD doesn't want to go to uni, she's not sure what she wants to do really at this stage. She hates studying, we have to nag and bribe and confiscate to get her to do anything, and she's a fairly anxious teen, so I've been backing off a bit.

These As and A*s that are 'predicted' are solely from the results of her Year 6 SATS, it all seems madness to me.

Considering she is doing well, I feel that last night was depressing and disappointing from the teachers point of view, as she isn't doing as well as school believe she can.

I'm late 40s now and there was never any pressure like this when I was at school. And I'm sure there was far less anxiety, depression, self harm etc amongst teens.

Am I wrong to back off and let her find her own way.

OP posts:

SixtyFootDoll · 22/01/2016 17:45

I agree OP. My son did maths GCSE in October and got a B.
School want him to resit for an A.
He doesn't want to as is happy with a B and doesn't want to pursue maths any further.
I'd rather he concentrate on his other subjects.
I think sometimes school push for an A as it looks better for them rather than what's right for the child.

briss · 22/01/2016 17:53

11 isn't a normal number in all English schools. Most independent schools do 8 or 9. I believe they have a good record generally of getting kids into good unis so they must be on to something.

noblegiraffe · 22/01/2016 17:56

sixty your son getting an A in a resit won't make any difference to the school as only the first result counts for league tables.

It will make a difference in access to A-levels though.

briss · 22/01/2016 18:00

neuro I suspect a B in GCSE is probably equivalent to a D in the old O levels which (as I know from personal experience) generally meant one was not doing much work in a subject

So does that mean an A in GCSE is equivalent to a C in the old o lvels?

That's a bit harsh is it true? Plenty of kids work hard to get a B at GCSE!

TeddTess · 22/01/2016 18:08

bollocks. (that is to the comment that a B is akin to an old O level D). rude.

BoneyBackJefferson · 22/01/2016 18:16

Basically what Noble posted.

Posters wanted PRP for teachers.

Posters wanted teachers to be part of the "real world"

Hell, if a teacher sat back and said "a C is a pass and I don't care what your child is capable of" they would get slaughtered.

TannhauserGate · 22/01/2016 18:25

If her predictions from end of KS2 are A and A* then she really isn't doing very well to be on all Cs. She isn't meeting her potential at all. If it were my child I'd be worried about her bitterly regretting when she is older not fulfilling her potential whilst at school.

FairyDustDreamer · 22/01/2016 18:33

This thread is depressing me.
I have a child in year 6.
I don't want him to think his life is over if he doesn't get top grades in GCSE.
I am from the O level era.
Don't even put my O level grades on applications or subjects as superseded by other qualifications and work experience.
Hell I even have CSEs [and not grade 1s] and my life not a total failure!
Anecdotal- but my siblings who decided not to go to university and take training on the job are incredibly successful. Me and my conventional brother- well we have done fine but not same pay league.
There are plenty of routes op's dd can take.
Stop the straight line thinking...

TeenAndTween · 22/01/2016 18:42

There are plenty of routes op's dd can take.

True (my DD is now doing a BTEC at college) but there is no getting away from the fact that A/B grades open more doors to choices than C grades.

If the OPs DD is capable of more than Cs she should be encouraged to aim for more. If she isn't, then happily accept the Cs and be grateful they give more choices than Ds.

neuroticnicky · 22/01/2016 18:53

I may be getting some flack but every teacher still around from the 70s/80s will tell you that a B in GCSE is not equivalent to a B in O levels; indeed most state school pupils in secondary moderns/ comprehensives didn't even do O levels as they were considered too hard. In addition to the exams being easier than O levels in the first place, since GCSEs were introduced in 1988 the percentage of Aand A grades awarded has more than doubled and the percentage of B grades awarded has nearly doubled. A combination of easier exams and grade inflation means that I would have to stand by my assertion that a GCSE B is equivalent to around D in the old O levels. However what is true is that most children didn't do that many O levels (some leading private boys schools only did 7 or 8 ). Although the poster's DD doesn't seem to have a choice to my mind 11 is too many i.e. it is better to do fewer and get all As/As. Perhaps she can discuss dropping one or two with the school; after all schools would also rather you did 9 GCSEs and got all A*/As than did 11 and got 2 Bs.

TannhauserGate · 22/01/2016 19:24

When GCSE was introduced, we were told an A was equivalent to an O Level C.

The thing is that pupils in Y9 are going to be told that a C isn't good enough- in the new numbered system, a 5 will be a good pass, not a 4 which is equivalent to a middle to low C now.
It's easy for us in our 30s, 40s, 50s to say 'oh, there are other paths' but the opportunities for those currently in school just aren't there. When I did GCSE you could just leave school and walk into a job. And change again a year later if you didn't like it.
They will be fighting tooth and nail even for minimum wage openings, let alone anything with decent prospects.

briss · 22/01/2016 19:29

indeed most state school pupils in secondary moderns/ comprehensives didn't even do O levels as they were considered too hard.

thats crap

I was at a comp in the 70s and although there were CSEs, the top three sets did O levels (there were around 5 sets)

FairyDustDreamer · 22/01/2016 19:37

Only top 2 sets did O level at my school.
I hope that as degrees begin to be seen as not be all and end all [and I think many think that now? Plus debt?] that other options will be developed and begin to be respected. Fingers crossed....
So many go to university now it doesn't have same status as years gone by, in my opinion...

lljkk · 22/01/2016 19:46

OP not returned?

DS didn't do SATs or maybe we'd be under similar pressure. We just get exasperated sighs. No way is DS even doing A-levels even. I've battled 7 yrs to get him to school at all & I'm done.

Need to find constructive, must be other, ways of taking not-academic-still-clever kids forward.

Melonaire · 22/01/2016 20:00

When I did A Level English the teacher used old O Level questions for a few lessons to help show us the gap between GCSE and A Level and what we'd be expected to do. They were Hard. They were a big step up from GCSE and the lowest GCSE mark in that group was an A.

bojorojo · 22/01/2016 20:23

I think the reason why the school is expecting A or A from the OP's DD is that she is clearly a high achiever as defined by the government's statistics. Therefore A,A or Bs would be expected. C is seriously underachieving and the school will not be able to show good progress. If it is not their teaching that is to blame - that is harsh on them. I would not be happy with Cs. If she had level 3 or low 4 in Sats then a C would be ok. Level 5s should be much higher GCSE grades.

Years ago O levels were 1-6 pass grades not A*-C. More grades were a pass. At least that is how the old Oxford Board worked!

BabyGanoush · 22/01/2016 20:39

It's not good to push kids too much and cause angst and stress

But low expectations are just as bad

Parents, schools and kids need to find the balance here. Not easy!

FairyDustDreamer · 22/01/2016 21:01

When I did O levels A-C all that counted really or a CSE grade 1.
5 Cs was the magic number for many jobs/ courses or CSE grade 1s.
I am pushing 50 though!!

KarenLong · 22/01/2016 21:42

Cs matter a lot to the school, but are fairly useless to the average child, C is about average, maybe slightly lower.

C in a foundation paper is below average.

If your DC wants to do A levels, should be aiming for at least an A in those subjects, and if she wants to go to university, every single grade she gets will be recorded and will have to be given on her application form. You cannot leave any out, even the ones you would rather forget.That is fraud.

One or two C grades isn't a total disaster if you want a good university, however more than that, or foundation papers, or slipping a few marks to a D, is very bad news.

As to the teachers performance related pay, it is worth peanuts, and staff who bother to work towards it get a rate well under the national minimum wage for that work, and many staff don't care either way. It means nothing anyway.

BoneyBackJefferson · 22/01/2016 21:45

Melonaire
"When I did A Level English the teacher used old O Level questions for a few lessons to help show us the gap between GCSE and A Level and what we'd be expected to do."

They where writing in a completely different fashion and its like comparing apples to oranges, it just doesn't work.

superram · 22/01/2016 21:55

It is important to her teachers as if she is predicted an A and gets a C they will be hauled over the coals and not access their performance related pay. Not about kids as individuals but data-heartbreaking. However, C's won't open many doors in the big wide world.

neuroticnicky · 22/01/2016 22:01

Briss -it may be that your comp was in a MC area or unusual since between 1977- 1979 65% of students sitting maths did the CSE and 35% did the O level. As O levels were done by virtually all independent and grammar schools the percentage of students at comps doing the O level was probably lower than 25%.

AnneEtAramis · 22/01/2016 22:03

This thread is surely about prevention rather than cure.

Maybe that is what this thread is about, but I don't think it's a problem that needs curing. Going back to study at different times of your life when you see the benefit can be a good thing. I know someone who for the reasons described needed to return to college to get her maths and English GCSEs. At school, she failed them, had a troubled home life etc - as an adult making a conscious decision she got an A and A*. I didn't mess up my GCSEs but didn't get any As and had a reasonable career I was happy with, then went back to university and just graduated with a First whilst working and raising a family. We live in a time where opportunity is everywhere and can be picked up when right for the individual, I really don't subscribe to the linear idea of success/progression.

That said, it is a shame if she doesn't achieve what she is capable of OP but she will learn and I think it is productive to encourage but also to explore and plan what she will do.

Rascalls3 · 22/01/2016 22:35

I have three daughters. My eldest dd was a straight A* student which continued through A levels and RG university. Next daughter mainly got As and a couple of Bs at GSCE,went on to get 3 Bs at A level and is currently a nursing student. My youngest achieved mainly Bs and a few As ( no Cs ) and I think her A level results were CDD or CDE ( clearly not very memorable ) and she hasn't gone to university ( I should add she is being very successful in her chosen career) If your daughter wants to go on to do A levels I really think she needs to get As in her chosen subjects which is probably why her school is pushing her to achieve this.

homebythesea · 22/01/2016 22:44

The point being that doing 11 piles on unnecessary stress and takes up time in the day which could be used to consolidate the 8 or 9 subjects that are done. Has anyone asked staff at schools that insist on 10 or 11 subjects why it is that this is not done in the independent sector, and what inherent benefit there is in doing additional exams?

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