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Secondary education

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Original poster

Y7 SATs resits will be in December 2017

50 replies

noblegiraffe · 13/01/2016 11:59

The SATs resits in Y7 for those who fail to meet the expected standard in KS2 will be going ahead in December 2017.

December.

So the kids will start secondary school, have to get to grips with all that entails and be hothoused by their new school to get them to pass a test in December that they couldn't pass in May.

So secondary teachers will have 3 months.

I think this is completely idiotic.

OP posts:
ReallyTired · 13/01/2016 12:07

I agree. It's just another stick to beat teachers with. It would be better to have resits in July. The math and English teachers would have lost their year 13s and year 11s and have more time.

Why makes me more annoyed is that Year 6 children get a whole six weeks after key stage 2 sats doing very little. Primaries know which children will fail.

TeenAndTween · 13/01/2016 14:18

What will happen if they still don't pass?
DD is likely to be in this category I fear.

I'm not sure I see the point. The secondary school will be doing its best to improve her maths and English anyway. Making her feel stressed/different by having to retake a primary test is unlikely to help her much.

Ooh, Actually, you say Dec 17. Does that mean it isn't for this year's y6s? (hopeful)

Bolognese · 13/01/2016 14:18

Why do you say Y6 will spend 6 weeks doing very little. Surly schools will spend those 6 weeks focusing on the ones who they know will fail. And then they will have all summer to do work at home. They need to catch up asap.

ReallyTired · 13/01/2016 14:52

Children and schools tend to let their hair down in the last half term of primary. They have the leavers play, sometimes a residential and generally six weeks of fun. Certainly my son's experience of year 6 is stupid amounts of pressure and then lots of fun activities for six weeks.

The problem with resits is that it simply not enough time for a child who has achieved a level 3 to jump a level. Unless children are dis applied from a lot of the secondary curriculum or tutored after a goo I can't see how they can be expected to make a level of progression in one term. Some children may have learning difficulties and stand no chance of passing SATs. Sats were never meant to be a pass/fail exam they were only meant to show where children are at. For some children a level 3 is a real achievement.

ReallyTired · 13/01/2016 14:55

"And then they will have all summer to do work at home. They need to catch up asap"

Children in the group of failing SATs are likely to either have learning difficulties or parents who don't support education or maybe the child was ill. My son was incredibly ill with stress when he did his key stage 2 sats. Having resits is going to make children even more stressed.

SueDunome · 13/01/2016 14:58

It is currently quite common that, once the SATS are completed, Year 6 pupils do hardly any work at all because the school has no further goals to reach with them.

Bolognese · 13/01/2016 15:01

I get that traditionally pupils might spend 6 weeks after SATs playing but that's a luxury some pupils just cant afford. Schools will have to change so the last six weeks are used to make sure remedial work is done for those who are behind.

ReallyTired · 13/01/2016 16:28

I think that the fact that year 6s spend six weeks doing fun activities and then have six weeks holiday is maybe why so many children are behind their primary school's national curriculum level. A low ablity child cannot afford to have 3 months with very little academic work.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 13/01/2016 17:57

Schools will have to change so the last six weeks are used to make sure remedial work is done for those who are behind.

SATs results don't come out till near the end of the summer term (I think). So will they only do remedial work with those who are definitely behind, or also borderline students who might be behind but might actually pass?

It would be a bit crap (understatement) for those kids who have been to boosters and intervention classes and whatnot to sit the exam, and then carry on slogging their guts out while the natural level 6 kids get to do off-curriculum stuff, celebrating the end of their primary schooling.

Aside from that, there's absolutely no incentive for primary schools to do this. The KS2 SATs are what go on the league tables. They will have done their utmost to get those kids through those exams. Whether the kids pass or fail the resits will be put down entirely to the secondary school, and if kids fail, only the secondary school will be punished.

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TeenAndTween · 13/01/2016 18:01

noble

Is this only starting for the current y5s (you say 2017)

Do you envisage secondaries having to do extra/different from what they normally do with the low achievers?

ChalkHearts · 13/01/2016 18:14

When do you think they should be done? From May to Dec is actually an awfully long time.

As a school / teacher obviously you do want all your pupils to be a level 4 by Dec.

I'd be pleased if my DC got another shot and the pressure on them to catch up to national standard quickly was kept up.

I've seen the opposite in Y7. That secondary teachers concentrate all their effort on Y10/11 at the expense of KS3.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 13/01/2016 18:14

Yes, I think Y5.

Given that schools will be in the firing line if the kids don't pass the resit then yes, secondaries will have to do things differently.

My school does various stuff with our lower ability students, but setting is done after a few weeks, we set up buddies to do work in tutor time and so on. But we give them time to settle into school and we assess them ourselves before setting this stuff up. What will now have to happen is that the minute these kids get to school they will be whisked off for intensive maths, intervention sessions, tutoring and so on. I can imagine that it would be a horrible introduction to the school. And any kid who might need a bit of extra help but who got a magic 4b will be ignored.

OP posts:
Original poster
noblegiraffe · 13/01/2016 18:22

As a school / teacher obviously you do want all your pupils to be a level 4 by Dec.

No, I don't, that's not my priority. I want the kids to be settled, happy, enjoying maths and making actual progress, not sick of maths, sick of past papers, and only being taught methods and stuff that will boost them over an artificial line which is fairly meaningless.

'Expected level' as measured by performance in a test on a given day in December is such a small part of their secondary experience. There's so much other stuff they've got to focus on in the first term of Y7.

How many kids are actually going to be able to get to a 4b in 3 extra months anyway, if 'expected' progress is 2 sublevels in a whole year?

OP posts:
ChalkHearts · 13/01/2016 18:26

But pupils who got a 4b are currently ignored. So that's no change.

And the level 3 pupils are used to being in interventions. So for them that's familiar and no change. Also they don't necessarily dislike them. Why would they? Small group work pitched at their level......

ChalkHearts · 13/01/2016 18:28

Well I think this illustrates why the tests have been introduced.

To a parent it's really shocking / sad to hear that getting my DC to catch up is not your priority.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 13/01/2016 18:29

But pupils who got a 4b are currently ignored. So that's no change.

Nope, a kid who got a 4b but who flunked our assessments could well end up in our bottom set which gets more support.

Level 3 kids might well be pissed off at interventions which involve being hoiked out of tutor time when the rest of their group are bonding, or being kept in at lunch or after school.

OP posts:
Original poster
noblegiraffe · 13/01/2016 18:32

You misunderstand, Chalk. You are mistaking 'catching up' with passing an exam. The two are not the same. I can train a kid to answer exam questions, or I can teach them maths. With 3 months to the test, it would be training, not teaching.

Getting your kid to actually enjoy and make progress in maths is my priority, which is why these tests are a bunch of arse.

Sublevels. Made up bullshit to provide an illusion of progress.

OP posts:
Devilishpyjamas · 13/01/2016 18:41

To a parent it's really shocking / sad to hear that getting my DC to catch up is not your priority

I'm a parent & no it's not. It's good to hear a teacher prioritising interest, learning & well being over nonsense high stake tests that make no allowance for individual circumstances or ability.

This government has lost the plot imo.

TeenAndTween · 13/01/2016 18:53

I'm glad it isn't for this Y6.

I have absolute confidence in the maths department of DD2's soon to be secondary, as they did wonders with DD1 who left in the summer. I would rather they built on her understanding and skills rather than having to 'teach to the test'.

It should be a steady climb to get to GCSE level by end y11, not a panic rush to drag kids up who missed the y6 peak. If it was 'easy' for them to get there, the primary would have done it. I agree with noble, asking for this in the first term of y7 is a lot for the lower achievers to cope with.

Bolognese · 13/01/2016 20:23

It might be crap for some kids to have to do catch up work in the last 6 weeks of Y6 but its a lot better than spending the rest of their lives being behind. Perhaps a summer school could be introduced for them

Bolognese · 13/01/2016 20:29

Its interesting to hear from nobel that schools wont do remedial work with children because there is no incentive for them. Perhaps ofstead need to mark them down if they dont!

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 13/01/2016 20:55

I have no idea what primary schools will and won't do, but I know that money is limited and spending will be concentrated before the SATs.

Summer school. Who will be paying for that?

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TeenAndTween · 13/01/2016 21:04

I feel really depressed with all this.

DD2 struggles with school. I don't think cramming her will do anything more than make her upset and frustrated. It is very much a slow and steady approach she needs. tbh her maturity is at about y4 rather than y6 so a lot of the time she's just not ready for what is expected.

She will go to summer school, her new secondary uses PP money to give kids a boost (on the sly) and to get to know them, and help them with transition.

But I am pleased she won't have to retake SATs first term of y7. How depressing to have 'primary' work so visibly following a child already finding things hard and feeling inadequate.

TwoLeftSocks · 13/01/2016 22:05

This will totally be DS1. Current Yr5, loves learning, really bright but I'll be amazed if he passes. I really dislike what these tests have become, not about jumping through hoops rather than educating.

Does anyone know what will happen to those who repeatedly ' fail'? Do they keep having to take it till they pass?

Bolognese · 13/01/2016 22:17

So maybe PP money can be used for a summer school?

But I think the real answer is to focus more on English/Maths earlier in primary so that it is very much a slow and steady approach. I know I will get trolled for saying this but there is a lot of stuff a primary does that could be replaced.