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Original poster

Teacher's commet

113 replies

DorothyL · 23/11/2015 19:48

Dd is in year 10 at a highly selective school. She has always been told she should contribute more in lessons but has always found it hard, being rather shy. Being surrounded by lots of clever and confident peers hasn't always helped. Today she put her hand up in English to ask to go to a music lesson, to which the teacher said "well yes it would be surprising if Dorothydaughter actually made a contribution". Dd felt mortified and was a bit teary about it tonight. Apparently this teacher is often rather sar astic, but am I wrong to
find this a bit counterproductive?

OP posts:
ThenLaterWhenItGotDark · 24/11/2015 06:18

Honestly?

I think he'll roll his eyes, especially given her age.

OK, she's shy. He upset her. You say it's given her a wake up call....really? If it has, then that's what everyone has been trying to achieve for her for years. If not, then to say so would make you look daft.

What is she like in other subjects? With non-sarcastic teachers?

As kindly and supportively as possible, you need to start letting her fight her own battles. And tbh, the comment, whilst harsh, sounds as if she doesn't pull her weight during the English lesson. English at that age is a subject where maybe a music lesson should take second place anyway, so if I had a kid who went to music classes instead of being in mine, I'd feel irritated too. (I appreciate the music lesson is organized by the school, not by you, but if this happens regularly, that she misses a lesson that she doesn't particularly shine at for music, I'd look to asking the school to schedule her music lesson at another time)

BrendaandEddie · 24/11/2015 06:19

Agree with later.

BrendaandEddie · 24/11/2015 06:20

Kids need to cope with being upset. Cloleague of mine had parental complaint as shed dared to suggest to a previous flower she could do the washing up like everyone else was. You should see the twatty complaints we get. Children are swearing on the bus. Kid had to wait in rs prion for TEN MINUTES etc.

Original poster
DorothyL · 24/11/2015 06:24

She plays two instruments and being in the year she is there are no lessons which are non-important and could be happily missed. The lessons are on rotation so not the same lesson gets missed every week.

Brenda, dd specifically asked me not to contact the teacher so she's hardly running to mummy!

I take your point about the wake up call, though again it was dd herself who said she wanted to prove him wrong. Yes she's been like this all her life, question is can you change somebody's character and should you? Why can't some teachers just accept that some students are quiet? She answers when asked, she produces good class and homework, whymake her feel bad?

OP posts:
ThenLaterWhenItGotDark · 24/11/2015 06:31

He was pointing out (OK, publicly, but again, she's year 10, she's not 3) that she doesn't make enough contribution in class. English is a subject (and no, I'm not an English teacher) where critical thinking, analysis and comparing opinions vocally is vital. If she just sits there, then I can see his frustration.

You say yourself she wants to prove him wrong. Let her.

BrendaandEddie · 24/11/2015 06:34

Does she do a speaking test? She'll need to pipe up for that

ThenLaterWhenItGotDark · 24/11/2015 06:36

I would also respect her wish not to contact him.

She sounds like she would be more mortified by that, than by what he said.

What I would do, at the parents evening, very matter of factly, say "OK, we know you aren't happy with the level of dd's participation in your lessons, what can I do, as a parent, to encourage her to speak out more."

Then you ask him if he wouldn't mind nominating her to speak, as others upthread have said.

Original poster
DorothyL · 24/11/2015 06:37

But it's not like she could happily join in the discussion but refuses to do so out of naughtiness/disinterest - she is genuinely listening and taking it in but her throat tightens at even the thought of putting her hand up, and by the time she's plucked up the courage things have moved on. And of course I'm going to let her but it will be incredibly hard for her. The school
is full of teenage alpha personalities and I think the teacher has no patience with those that aren't like that, which is annoying.

OP posts:
GingerIvy · 24/11/2015 06:51

If you reach a point where you do send an email, I wouldn't use the words "wake up call" at all. They imply that his comment spurred her on to improve, which may set the tone for future comments to her from him. You've given a real mixed message that she was upset but that it helped her. I think if you discuss it with the teacher, you should be clear that the comment was not necessary and that openly making comments that put her down in class are not acceptable. Then discuss ways that he can encourage her in a more positive manner.

Noteventhebestdrummer · 24/11/2015 06:57

What instruments does she play? Is she ok at performing those in public? Can she use that experience to help her with speaking to an audience?

Original poster
DorothyL · 24/11/2015 07:01

Good point GingerIvy, I was trying too hard to be conciliatory.

With her instruments she prefers playing in an ensemble to playing on her own.

OP posts:
IguanaTail · 24/11/2015 07:09

Why not leave it then if that's what your daughter wants and in the parents evening say that she finds it desperately hard to contribute and that she has tried extra hard in recent weeks / has he noticed?

GingerIvy · 24/11/2015 07:15

Dorothy You could suggest to your DD that she takes it in stages.

  1. Jot down thoughts that she would like to contribute in a "journal" temporarily.
  1. Write things that she would like to contribute in brief paragraphs and give to the teacher after class for feedback (after speaking to the teacher about this, of course, and asking him to be supportive).

Then once she has some positive feedback, she may feel more confident to try expressing those thoughts in class.

Alternatively, if she is more comfortable discussing things in smaller groups, ask the teacher if it is possible to try breaking the class down into smaller groups to discuss things occasionally, so that she can participate more fully and build up some confidence in class.

GingerIvy · 24/11/2015 07:20

He could also ease her into class contributions by asking her either/or questions to bring her into the discussion, rather than open ended questions or expecting her to speak up of her own accord - for example "there's two schools of thought on this... 1. xxxx and 2. yyyyy. Dorothy's dd, which do you think applies here? xxxxx or yyyyy?" Then she's just making a choice and he can then encourage her to give a few reasons why she made that choice (if she is comfortable with that) and give her positive feedback on that contribution.

BrendaandEddie · 24/11/2015 07:47

i had a first the other week when I asked a monosyllabic kid something and they said " i prefer not to answer'

Shock
IguanaTail · 24/11/2015 08:01

Exercising their right to silence?

Molio · 24/11/2015 08:05

Surely there's a danger that your DD will say 'It's ok mum leave it' at the parents' meeting? That would leave you in a lose/ lose situation.

I'd e-mail prior to the meeting with the written caveat that your DD doesn't know you've e-mailed and wouldn't want you to but even so. I'd also make the e-mail shorter and more direct but well short being rude.

I'm surprised at the teacher. They're supposed to be able to judge the pupils as well as drawing out contributions from the passive learners. I'm especially surprised at an English teacher actually - where's all that empathy gone?

Molio · 24/11/2015 08:10

Brenda that's a bit wordy sounding for a monosyllabic kid. Next time he should just call the Fifth Grin.

Original poster
DorothyL · 24/11/2015 08:18

What would you leave out Molio?

OP posts:
Original poster
DorothyL · 24/11/2015 08:20

Apparently the teacher is far harsher with other students (one boy got called incompetent Shock) so dd feels like a wuss

OP posts:
Molio · 24/11/2015 08:22

I'd make it a three or four liner: she's naturally shy, he shot her down, she's upset, please can he encourage not discourage.

Original poster
DorothyL · 24/11/2015 08:29

Hmmm... How about this? Feel free to edit!

Dear Mr X

Dd was a little upset today after you commented to her that it would be surprising if she actually made a contribution to English, when she asked to be allowed to go to her music lesson. Right from the beginning of her school career she has been told by numerous teachers that she should contribute more in lessons, but at the same time she has always found this hard and continues to do so to this day. She is a committed and hard-working student who pays close attention in lessons, but she really struggles to pluck up the confidence to make a verbal contribution during class discussions, especially in a subject like English where there might not be one "right" answer. I would be grateful if you could encourage her in becoming more confident. She did not want me to contact you, but I still felt I should let you know how she feels - but please could I ask you to not tell her about the email?

Thank you, and kind regards,

DorothyL

OP posts:
Molio · 24/11/2015 08:40

Kind regards would do, no need to thank him! I personally prefer that one Dorothy and we're not on a word count so I guess your style is just a bit fuller than mine! Press send! I'd be interested in his reaction and I hope he apologizes - these sarcastic teachers are all very well and funny to others but sometimes they like themselves just a little too much. Your DD doesn't sound fair game.

ThenLaterWhenItGotDark · 24/11/2015 08:43

Dear Mr X

My daughter was upset today because of an apparent comment you made to her when she asked permission to leave for her music lesson. I would appreciate the opportunity to discuss this with you further as it has left her feeling rather singled out during a lesson in which she already feels a certain amount of anxiety.

I would prefer that my daughter not be told of this mail and look forward to hearing from you about the way forward.

+++++++++++++++

But I still would urge you not to do it.

Thumbcat · 24/11/2015 09:44

It was an off hand comment made to a year 10 child who doesn't contribute enough in class. I understand that you're upset at how it made her feel, but you won't be doing her any favours by wading in and fighting her battles.

My DS is in year 3 and feels that his teacher sometimes treats him unfairly. I can see that she's actually trying to get him to achieve more, because she knows he's capable of it, but she doesn't have the softly softly approach that he's been used to with previous teachers. I've explained this to him, told him that sometimes he's going to have teachers whose ways he doesn't like so much, and said that he needs to give his best effort.