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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Admissions Appeal - are there any experts out there?

29 replies

threeofus · 15/03/2015 15:36

Hi - I am putting my case together for our appeal - I think I can show that although going by the PAN number the school is full, there is capacity within the school to admit more children... I also have other reasons for appea based on academic achievement, subject choice and domestic and medical grounds... I havent written it all up yet, but when I do I wondered if there are any experienced MNers who would be willing to take a look at it and offer an opinion?

Many thanks x

OP posts:

tiggytape · 15/03/2015 15:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RibbonJar · 15/03/2015 15:53

This website is great: www.elevenplusexams.co.uk

It's not just for Grammar School info. There is a section on appeals & the forum is useful for getting questions answered by people who have been through the appeals process and also people who have sat on appeals panels.

Hope your appeal goes well.

Original poster

threeofus · 15/03/2015 16:03

Thank you for responding so quickly.

In terms of subject choices - the subjects she wants at GCSE are not available at our allocated school.
Medical - relates to the excellent pastoral reputation at the school, and onsite medical rest room which is relevant to her condition - not available at other school.
Domestic relates to the fact that I will need to drive her to school because of her medical condition - it is on my route to work - other school isnt. Also relates to pre and afterschool provision that we will need otherwise it will be very difficult for me to keep working where i currently do as I would have to cut my hours short... my empoyer is as sympathetic as they can be already!

What do you think?

OP posts:

tiggytape · 15/03/2015 16:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

threeofus · 15/03/2015 16:53

thanks so much for your advice - its useful to have someone present the schools/admissions case back to me... helps me form my argument!

OP posts:

tiggytape · 15/03/2015 18:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

prh47bridge · 15/03/2015 19:38

I would add just one thing to Tiggytape's advice. The strength of point 3 depends on a number of factors. In the (admittedly unlikely) event that the LA would provide a door to door taxi you may struggle to convince the panel that you need to drive your daughter to school. If there is some form of transport that she could use (school bus or public transport) that provides something close to door to door transport the strength of this point will depend on the strength of any expert evidence you put forward to show that this is not suitable for your daughter.

The other thing you need to be aware of is that the panel may feel that the fact you would have to go out of your way to provide transport to and from the allocated school isn't something they can consider. After all, the appeal is about the disadvantage to your daughter if she isn't admitted to the appeal school. Making you take a longer route to and from work doesn't really disadvantage her. However, if the expert evidence said that the school needed to be no more than X minutes drive from home because of your daughter's medical condition and the allocated school was further away than that it would be a strong argument.

admission · 15/03/2015 21:27

I chair appeal panels and more than happy to look at what appellants intend to say and give an opinion on the strength of the case.
What it is really important to realise is that whilst you have to show that the reasons for your child needing a place outweigh the reasons for not admitting it is important to create holes in the admission authorities case at stage 1. It is unlikely( but does happen) that the panel will agree to admit all appellants at stage 1 but what you need to do is reduce the bar as low as possible for entry.
Then when you present a good case at stage 2 there is much more chance of persuading the appeal panel that you deserve a place based on your case.
It is difficult to comment further without seeing the detail of your application.

Original poster

threeofus · 21/03/2015 11:16

Hi Admission - thank you - I would really appreciate you taking a look. I am gradually putting our case together and I will PM you with it if you don't mind.
x

OP posts:

prh47bridge · 21/03/2015 11:46

If you want another opinion I would also be happy to take a look.

Original poster

threeofus · 21/03/2015 13:13

thank you prh47bridge, that would be great!
x

OP posts:

catslife · 21/03/2015 16:33

Am not an expert on appeals but was going to add to the comments on GCSE subject choices. Although some subjects may not be available as GCSEs in a few years time, your favoured school could still have better facilities.
For example instead of saying my dd wants to take Dance GCSE - does the school have a dance studio?
drama GCSE - does the school have a functioning theatre ?

Original poster

threeofus · 28/03/2015 21:10

Hi ladies...
Are you stil willling to look through what I've written? Its more or less done - needs a bit of a polish still- but the gist of it is there! Is it ok to send it in a PM - it might be easier by email?

The appeal form from the school is just asking us for our personal reasons why we are appealing....is that right? I want to question the capacity of the school - do I do that on the day?

Thanks so much x

OP posts:

CadmiumRed · 28/03/2015 21:21

If a stage 1 succeeds, why does the school not admit more from the waiting list rather than just giving all extra places for appeals? Especially as while many appeals have substance some may be no more worthy than applicants higher up the waiting list .
Sorry if this is a hijack, but the answer may help inform your appeal, Op!

CadmiumRed · 28/03/2015 21:22

Pssst, Op, I don't think all the admissions experts on this thread are ladies!

prh47bridge · 28/03/2015 23:24

threeofus - I'm very happy to take a look. Feel free to PM me.

All you need to put on the appeal form is an outline case as to why your child will be disadvantaged if they don't go to this school. You can leave arguments about the school's capacity until the hearing.

CadmiumRed - The appeal panel can only give places to people who have appealed. If you don't appeal you may lose out even if, in reality, your case is more deserving than those who have appealed. The panel cannot alter PAN (which would result in pupils being admitted from the waiting list). They can only decide whether or not to admit the pupils for whom appeals have been lodged. If they were to take your approach (which is prohibited by the Appeals Code) a very deserving case may lose out simply because they are nowhere near the head of the waiting list.

The process is a little more complex than your description. At stage 1 the appeal panel decides if the school can handle more pupils. If they decide it can handle all those appealing they must admit all of them. However, that is unusual unless there are very few appeals. So, having decided how many additional pupils the school can handle without any problems, the panel must compare the cases of those who have appealed to figure out which are the most deserving. If, say, they decide the school can handle 5 more pupils they will admit the 5 most deserving cases. They must then look at the 6th case and decide whether the prejudice to the child outweighs the prejudice to the school now that they have already admitted 5. If they decide it does they will admit the 6th child then move on to consider the 7th and so on.

Original poster

threeofus · 29/03/2015 11:25

Sorry - should assume you are all ladies - I'm just thankful for the help!

OP posts:

Original poster

threeofus · 29/03/2015 11:44

shouldn't

OP posts:

tiggytape · 29/03/2015 14:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

admission · 29/03/2015 18:48

Quite happy to look at the appeal document but you do need to include everything so questions about the capacity of the school are in it. You absolutely need to raise them in stage 1 of the appeal, where the school make their case not to admit. You need to not only put it in you appeal document but then ask questions of the school at the stage 1 appeal to bring out what you are saying. So things like "You mentioned the capacity of the school, can you tell me a bit more about how this is agreed. " "so it is based in the physical rooms in the school, when was it last measured." "so what new buildings have been added that are not in the capacity calculation, should be and will make a difference to the number of pupils that can be admitted."
I will PM you an email address.

PingusLastStand · 30/03/2015 13:02

I've received a date to go before the appeals panel along with a letter from the school outlining their reasons for opposing the appeal. I have a query about their reasons and wondered if I could possibly pm any of the experts on here to double check some points. Thank you.

prh47bridge · 30/03/2015 13:35

I will be happy to advise if you want to PM me.

Tiasmummy · 30/03/2015 13:53

prh47bridge not meaning to hijack this thread but would you mind if I pm'd you about my appeal? We have no date yet as we have only just handed it in. I would just like someone's opinion on it? Thanks.

PingusLastStand · 30/03/2015 14:21

Thank you prh47bridge, I have PMed you.

prh47bridge · 30/03/2015 17:17

Tiasmummy - Feel free. I do my best to answer all PMs.

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