state comprehensive secondary schools stretching able pupils - opinions?

[PastSellByDate]

Hi all

DD1 is happily selted into her secondary comprehensive which is rated 'GOOD' by OFSTED.

In Year 7 all classes are mixed ability. Gradually from Year 8 they start to stream - most classes in Year 9 are by ability.

So far I've had some niggles (little or no maths homework coming home - everyone giving the same worksheet and the homework is for pupils to finish the worksheet, but DD1 finishes in class 95% of the time. DD1 scored Nc L6 at KS2 SATs). We have raised this with the teacher and our solution has been to do more at home.

Last week there were a slew of reports in the press about secondary schools failing to stretch their most able: www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22873257 - based on the second OFSTED repoert into progress of pupils achieving NC L5+ at KS2 SATs in English or Maths in secondary (www.gov.uk/government/news/schools-not-doing-enough-to-support-most-able-students).

It's quite clear that if you are in a miniority of bright pupils at a state comprehensive your chances of going on to achieve an A/A* at GCSE are much lower (ca. 28% in Math if

PastSellByDate Sat 14-Mar-15 07:32:32

Thanks for the life story! Someone get me a violin. Do you really think I am going to read all that?

PS. You are absolutely correct. I used to go by the moniker RaisinBoys but as I am now no longer raising just boys, it is no longer fitting. Bit creepy incidentally that you have so much time to monitor historic usernames!

Notably noblegiraffe Birmingham (which boasts several universities) doesn't appear to be offering these for their pupils. Shame really.

Of course Birmingham schools offer these enrichment opportunities to their students. Perhaps it is just yours that doesn't.

The King Edward grammars certainly do

It's not the schools that offer the masterclasses, it's the universities, and pass would appear to be correct from looking at the map that no Birmingham university offers them. The closest would be Warwick.

I mentioned enrichment opportunities in school. I did not mention Uni master classes. Many of Birmingham's KS3's participate in the UKMT Junior Maths Challenge, for example.

Past's sweeping generalisations about the perceived failures of Birmingham schools are not always correct!

No, not, I mentioned masterclasses, which are put on by universities, and you will note that the comment which you quoted was addressed to me and mentioned universities and so was clearly about those in particular and not a sweeping generalisation about Birmingham schools at all.

"...and you will note that the comment which you quoted was addressed to me"*

Yes addressed to you on a public forum not in a private bloody chat. You don't decide who can and cannot comment.

I didn't say that you couldn't comment, I said that you'd taken a comment which was addressed to me and specifically about Birmingham universities not offering masterclasses (which they apparently don't) and responded with a snide comment about how the grammar schools offer enrichment. Well they can't offer masterclasses at a Birmingham university because they don't exist. Which was entirely what the bolded comment you were replying to was about. So you took a remark to me out of context to apparently put the boot in on some wider agenda. I think it is fair to object to that.

It's extremely likely that Brum Unis offer visitor/demo/recruitment days to yr11 & older. Phone them up and ask. Don't have to be called "Masterclass" or whatever.

The Uni where I work offers whole taster days to yr11 & older in many courses, but they are not advertised online. Just organised thru local schools. Phone and ask, especially individual depts you are interested in.

The masterclasses aren't uni demos or taster sessions, they are a course of activities, usually over 6 weekends designed to challenge very able KS3 students.

The description of this masterclass is less than our taster days offer.

These Masterclasses are closer to what NG described. Make sure you know what the partic Uni means.

Oh look, special residential summer schools in Birmingham for more able pupils from less affluent backgrounds.

I stand corrected, taster days are advertised online.

But ragged, the OP's DD is in KS3 so taster days aimed at Y11 aren't appropriate yet.

Chocolate - thanks for saying this - I also fear that A* is increasingly necessary if you want to be on a top flight programme.

And yes I get that some people are reading my worries about the statisics as my taking these onboard wholesale - I don't think of it in that way - but I do have concerns that the trend is that roughly 2 out of 5 pupils having achieved NC L5+ at KS2 SATs maths actually go on to achieve A/A* 5 years later at GCSE at non-selective secondaries and worry what this could mean for DD1 at a schools whose VA with high achieving pupils is decidedly average (high figure not much above 1000/ low figure around 980) and who OFSTED picked up on for not stretching able pupils in maths during KS3.

I can't predict the future but would certainly hate for DD1 to be one of those 3 out of 5 failing to convert Nc L5+ at KS2 SATs to an A/A* at GCSE.

Is OP's DD in yr7? To be honest I have completely lost track of what this thread is supposed to be about (other than slagging off state schools). I was only commenting on what Unis can offer to secondary age wanting extension and tasters. There aren't a huge number of offerings even in the masterclass programme for yr7. Will involve travel. Leicester is closest on that map for OP, I think.

They do exist in Birmingham and elsewhere noble. They may not exist in huge numbers for 11 year olds (OP's daughter is in y7).

Nothing snide about the grammar school comment. They do offer enrichment, stretching or whatever you choose to call it; as does the comprehensive school my child attends.

The rest of your last post I do not understand.

not, if you look upthread you will see that I linked to the Royal Institution Masterclasses which are specifically aimed at able KS3 students and suggested that the OP look to see if any university near her offered them. She said no.

You then leapt into that conversation, that you hadn't read properly, with an irrelevant comment about grammar schools offering Olympiads.

Exploring that RI site masterclasses... are the classes free? Some of the offerings are very very London centric.

Ragged - appeciate links to UoB options and am aware of taster days (DH's own department offers them - 'taster' sums it up really - good when thinking about what Uni, but maybe not so helpful for 'learning' IYSWIM).

I fear as DH and I are both University educated the MASTER class at UoB isn't an option for our DD1.

I am not slagging off state school - which does a great job by Birmingham standards. But I'm aware our school has been picked up on not stretching
KS3 in maths by OFSTED and this report just adds to the niggle.

Meanwhile DD1 is constantly asking to do more and curious:

Off her own bat:

Plays My Maths games and approached school to get password although My Maths not offered Y7

Teacher has agreed she can do L7 My Maths lessons/ homework

Teacher has suggested NRICH puzzles and her answers have been posted.

DD1 does Corbett 5 a day numeracy/ foundation level problems. Adores foundation level problems she gets wrong - becuase often it involves learning something new. I can handle this level math but having peeked at 'HIGHER' I know that it will be a bit of a struggle.

She's eager to learn more & says class is just repeating stuff from primary - now that may or may not be true but I do believe she doesnt' feel it's very challenging and would like to help her to do more if possible.

I'm sorry if you see this as slagging off the secondary school - I don't have ill will toward the school at all, there are some amazing people working there and they seem to care and try - but in this one area DD1 is 'heads above' her peers and in only this area is school work no effort at all - and that has me a little concerned. OK for the moment, it is just Y7 right now - but perhaps not good all the way through KS3/ KS4 I think.

They are free, but you have to be nominated by a teacher at a local school to attend. We get a leaflet from our Uni each year asking us for 3-4 names, and usually just ask our top set y8s if anyone is interested then put them forward. (State school, nowhere near London).

So if there are none local to PSBD then her DD will never be nominated, so the RI are irrelevant to her (?) Leicester is an hour away I should think, not usual definition of local in densely populated area midlands.

DD (y8) insisted on buying GCSE revision guides today (DON'T ASK). Wasted money I reckon since not clear which GCSEs DD will take. But Could do worse than get something similar (Waterstones). DD is also asking about volunteering opportunities and joining every school club going (good practice at time management).

Op - take a look at the courses offered by Kilve Court in Somerset, they usually have some great engineering & maths type courses.

noble just to add - as I've shown DH - we do appreciate RI KS3 masterclasses idea and are seriously considering Worcester (accessible by train) as well as some other great ideas posted by yourself, senua and others. I've also been kindly e-mailed with a suggestion privately which has DD1 very excited and seems a viable option as well.

Other than maths I can assure you she's a very ordinary kid (a bit sports mad perhaps). She thoroughly enjoys her classes at school and is ridiculously happy there. She's more than aware of grammar school options (having sat 11+) but has made the personal decision not to remain on wait list for a King Edward state grammar school. Private isn't really an option.

I fear we have an out of balance kid - quite ordinary ability in things like English/ science/ history/ etc... and then off the charts good at maths. Not a family trait I can assure you - maths teacher brother aside - that's it for either side of the family.

Maybe it's all the sports statistics she soaks up?

or a swap in the hospital at birth?

PSBD, you already know about lots of good resources which is great, but one I haven't seen mentioned is Art of Problem Solving's free Alcumus. It's organised by US subject divisions, but still relevant for UK children, and is pretty flexible with settings to adjust from pretty easy problems to very hard ones. They do great books too, which can be bought in the UK via UKMT (whose own stuff has already been mentioned: definitely try to make sure her school will enter her in the Junior Maths Challenge this summer, for a start).

You then leapt into that conversation, that you hadn't read properly, with an irrelevant comment about grammar schools offering Olympiads.

Yes, I was drawn to it, like a fly to shit!

Just a selection of what Birmingham uni offers, for able and not so able school students, to excite their interest in maths and physics. Obviously not RI offering noble, before you jump in, so will almost certainly be totally and completely irrelevant!

www.birmingham.ac.uk/undergraduate/advice/west-midlands-schools/Masterclasses.aspx

www.birmingham.ac.uk/schools/mathematics/news-and-events/birmingham-popular-maths-lecture.aspx

www.birmingham.ac.uk/schools/physics/outreach/index.aspx

It's been fun.