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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

A Level Options - Advice please!

30 replies

OrchardDweller · 28/02/2015 22:52

DS is considering Maths, Physics, Chemistry and DT for A level (he wants to be an engineer). However school have mentioned that this might be a huge workload and that he might want to consider swapping chemistry for say, Geography. Does anyone have any experience with this group of subject choices or can offer any advice? He enjoys chemistry over geography (or poss economics) so should be go with his heart and choose the subjects he likes? Help!

OP posts:

castlesintheair · 28/02/2015 23:06

If he wants to go down the civil engineering route then maybe geography instead of chemistry, otherwise I'd stick with the subject he enjoys most and chemistry is the best fit with maths and physics. Does he have to do four? I'd drop DT.

OhOneOhTwoOhThree · 28/02/2015 23:12

I guess your DS needs maths for engineering - but beware, the step up from GCSE if huge. DS1 got an A at GCSE and even so really struggled, and has now dropped it (after bombing at AS). He's doing 2 sciences (biology and chemistry) and geography and it seems like a lot of work.

Good luck to your DS, I hope he will be happy with his choices

Chopchopbusybusy · 28/02/2015 23:50

DD1 did maths, physics, chemistry and biology and is now at university studying engineering. She dropped biology for A2. It was a heavy workload and I know she had to work very hard. She really wanted to do engineering though so that drove her on. Her cousin did physics, maths and geography and he is doing civil engineering.
As a previous poster said it is a big step up from GCSE. DD was an A* student at GCSE but she really had to put the work in to her A levels.
DD2 started geography A level and hated it. She only lasted until Christmas. Provided he has Maths and Physics any of the other three you mentioned are perfectly acceptable choices so he should choose the ones he enjoys most.

stonecircle · 01/03/2015 00:00

Well it depends what his strengths are! DS2 is in year 13 and doing A2 geography at the moment and has applied to do it at university. He did AS maths last year and dropped it having only managed a D (despite having an A at GCSE). DS3 is currently doing A level maths early and finds it a doddle. Horses for courses.

The step up from GCSE to AS is big for all subjects I think, but particularly maths, and also chemistry. The step up from AS to A2 is quite big too. One of DS2's friends got all A*/A at GCSE, is hoping to do medicine but struggled with AS chemistry and is now really struggling with A2 chemistry.

I think all he can do is choose the subjects he likes - A levels can be enough of a battle without having to struggle with a subject you're not really interested in!

BackforGood · 01/03/2015 00:08

'Huge workload' seems a strange thing to say about a pretty sensible mix of A-levels.
Unless they think he has had to already work hard to get good marks in these for GCSE ?
I think A-levels need to be your strong subjects, but I'm kind of presuming he wouldn't be choosing them if they weren't.

ErrolTheDragon · 01/03/2015 00:17

My DD wants to be an engineer too, and is planning on Maths, Further maths, physics and computing. She wanted to do DT (systems and control) but there wasn't enough take-up so they're not running it this year.

I'm very surprised that the school thinks geography would be less work than chemistry - I did Chemistry a-level many moons ago along with double maths and physics and that seemed absolutely fine to me. Wouldn't geog have more essay-type work (which seems like more work to me - probably depends how your brain works!)

I think the DT may be more workload because of the coursework aspect (certainly if GCSE Electronics is anythign to judge by!)

I guess your DS needs maths for engineering
Er, yes! Maths and physics are the two essentials, and everything we've heard suggests that Further maths is a really good idea. We've looked at the syllabuses and were quite surprised at the way some of the topics are divided up - there are some parts quite important for some branches of science and engineering which are only in the FM.

It depends on your DS's strengths and preferences and what sort of engineering, but workload wise and from the POV of engineering admissions requirements, the combination of double maths and physics (which have a bit of overlap) and then either the Chemistry or DT would be reasonable workload and the good choices.

ErrolTheDragon · 01/03/2015 00:21

(there was an extraneous 'the' before 'good choices' in that last sentence).

meandjulio · 01/03/2015 00:21

Given that an engineering degree is hugely demanding (but fantastic choice) I would stick with his current pick. Also, what if he decides he wants to be a chemical engineer??

ErrolTheDragon · 01/03/2015 00:29

OP - does he know what sort of engineering he wants to do yet? (my DD is leaning towards electronic/electrical, possibly mechatronics and definitely not chem or civil).

Original poster

OrchardDweller · 01/03/2015 08:34

Thank you so much for all your wise words! He's always wanted to be an automotive engineer and I'm 99% sure that's what he'll do although I've said he should look at other areas too before he makes a final decision. Whilst I loved geography at school, he doesn't love the essay side of it so much. My thoughts are that if you really enjoy a subject then you are probably happier putting the time in rather than going through the motions in a subject don't like so much.

The comments about the workload came through my DS yesterday after a brief discussion with his housemaster (at boarding school) so we will be talking to him today to see what his concerns are. However, I think it's important to start this sort of discussion prepared so your advice is well received.

OP posts:

homebythesea · 01/03/2015 08:47

Look up relevant degree courses and take careful note if the entry requirements - this will tell you what is absolutely necessary for the next stage. Then choose whichever subject he is likely to get the most UCAS points for at AS (assuming of course his school is continuing with AS and not just doing the new 2year linear courses)

catslife · 01/03/2015 09:51

Your son needs to choose subjects that he enjoys and is motivated to study OP. He needs to talk to his Chemistry teachers to find out more about this subject.
It is useful for Engineering courses but only critical for Chemical Engineering.
Hope that helps

ragged · 01/03/2015 10:04

Why not drop Chemistry after AS? Isn't that usual way, to drop one subject?

Go with heart, for sure.
Further maths is the other option (do they still offer?). DH is an engineer & did further maths.

lemonscilla · 01/03/2015 11:49

Have you considered Further Maths? Only really suitable for A* pupils or A grade pupils with excellent Algebra skills. I am a maths teacher with a son about to study aerospace engineering and all the universities say mechanical engineering is very maths based. Some students get an A for Maths with quite poor algebra as they get marks on Shape and Space, Data handling and Number, which (surprisingly for some) is actually pretty meaningless as a indicator of A level success. Algebra is the essential skill here.

senua · 01/03/2015 12:39

If you look at AutoEng at Oxford Brookes they recommend "Mathematics, Physics and a third subject, preferably Chemistry or Design Technology" so they think your DS is spot on!
Is he going to do all four subjects throughout sixth form? If he drops one, then the subject is not so important (with the caveat that sometimes things don't pan out the way you expected and the subject that you drop is not the one you expected).

A lot of schools treat Maths+FM as being more like one-and-a-half subjects instead of two subjects. Would Maths, FM and Physics plus ano (Chem or DT) suit?

Bonsoir · 01/03/2015 12:50

It is a pity to do A-levels in Maths and Physics and not do Further Maths because many quantitative degree courses (Engineering, Economics etc) will look favourably upon FM when selecting candidates for offers and students who have done FM will be better prepared for their courses.

throckenholt · 01/03/2015 16:20

My nephew did this combination (he is taking A levels this year). He struggled with chemistry and ditched it after AS (but really gave up before that and didn't pass it). I think the step from, GCSE to A level is large in maths, so might take proportionately more time.

He has had a lot of family problems that haven't helped (very bad timing for him) - but he is loving DT, and struggling a lot with the other two.

All of those I know who have started chemistry in recent have dropped it - not sure why (personally chemistry was my favourite subject). I wouldn't think geography is particularly useful for engineering.

I would have thought maybe start all of them, with a view to dropping chemistry (assuming he doesn't really want to do chemical engineering - physics/maths/DT will open more doors to engineering).

As others say - double maths, and physics are normally a good route into engineering.

But remember - pick what you enjoy most if you can.

scissy · 01/03/2015 17:43

So I did geography rather than Chemistry when I did my A-levels and tbh unless your son likes essays I'd have thought Geography would be MORE work! There is a step up between GCSE and A-level, particularly in maths but if his mind is that way inclined he should be fine. I say this because I was that way inclined, I'd have found chemistry much easier than geography, but I chose to do geography as I found it interesting, even though for me it was a lot more work/harder. I'm aware that other people find it the other way round with different subjects.

FM is useful for engineering but not all schools offer it, hence why it's not a requirement.

But as others have said, pick what you enjoy if you can - I'd have never got through my geography A-level if I hadn't found the subject fascinating.

MillyMollyMama · 01/03/2015 18:12

DT is a far better choice if he wants to do Automotive Engineering. Physics and Maths are vital, FM would be good but lots of students do 4 A2 subjects when it includes FM. Looking at Warwick for Automotive Engineering, their course has a variety of electives which might also inform his choices. They are one of the top universities for Automotive Engineering and also look at the MEng course, not BEng.

KneesOfTheBee · 01/03/2015 18:18

DS1 is in his final Masters year studying Aeronautical Engineering. He took A level: Maths, Further Maths, Physics and (something like) Electronics.

I believe it's the maths & physics that are the important subjects

Original poster

OrchardDweller · 01/03/2015 20:36

Well after a long discussion a decision has now been reached .... he's going to stick with what he had originally decided, with the option to drop either chemistry or DT at end of of L6. Thank you all for your help and advice - much appreciated and incredibly useful.

OP posts:

KneesOfTheBee · 01/03/2015 21:38

Good luck to your DS. It sounds like he is really motivated to be an engineer and it will be this that will see him through when the going gets tough.

throckenholt · 02/03/2015 11:16

Is he thinking of a degree or an apprenticeship ? My nephew was keen on an apprenticeship with one of the car companies (can't remember which) but he is not likely to get the grades needed :(

I think he has picked a good combination - and can review in a years time to decide if he should drop one and concentrate on 3 core subjects.

Lancelottie · 02/03/2015 13:23

DS did Maths, DT, Physics and Geography -- but dropped the geog for A2 as he really didn't enjoy it.

He's been asked at uni interviews why he didn't take further maths, and in fact Cambridge cited it as a reason for rejecting him.

ErrolTheDragon · 02/03/2015 13:49

He's been asked at uni interviews why he didn't take further maths, and in fact Cambridge cited it as a reason for rejecting him.

The (in)famous Trinity A-levels guide - which obviously does not apply everywhere! - was what first made us realise that DD might want to think about doing FM.

In general if you aren't sure whether your DC is planning on the right combination for a particular course, you may want to get them to contact a few admissions tutors and ask. DD did this - it's fairly easy to find the contact details o line, she contacted about half a dozen and I think they all sent helpful replies.

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