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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

Is it worth an appeal?

36 replies

Boohaven · 28/02/2015 12:33

Hello all I'm new here and been directed this way from another site for help .
I've had the letter today that my son has not gotten a place at the secondary school that we have his older sister in .
I'll give you some background .
Dd is 13 and goes to a catholic school ( is none catholic as of yet we need to do a 12 week intro )
Ds is also waiting to do the 12 week Intro .
We had co serves over ds behaviour some years ago and after being referred to hospital for a specialist it was decided he had ADHD , at the time they suggested meds but with a house move and school change I asked if we could settle him and I'll have a chat to the new school about this .
After moving and changes at home and support from the school he has become much more settled so we decided that the best option was to carry on like this .
Now the fact his sister is at one school and him at another will cause a lot of unsettled behaviour and competition . I can only see this as a bad thing and no good can come from it .
I stupidley thought he would be given a place with his sister on the grounds they are siblings :(
I've no idea what I can do and am quite upset I don't even have the heart to tell them .any advice welcome .
Just to add I also have 17 month old twins that have not slept at all and are quite boisterous it's the reason we have not yet got to do the 12 week course and another reason he's not got an automatic place .

OP posts:
GwenStacy · 28/02/2015 13:02

Do you know how over subscribed it was?

LIZS · 28/02/2015 13:06

You could still go on a waiting list. However surely you knew this was far from a given and could have a contingency plan in place ?

LIZS · 28/02/2015 13:08

On what grounds would you appeal ? Assuming others with offers met higher priority criteria it could prove tricky with no statement and no error in assessing his application.

addictedtosugar · 28/02/2015 13:13

Is sibling link on the criteria list? And where is it?

Are you in catchment?

I would ask what distance you are from the school, and what the furthest distance from school anyone in that category was admitted. If you beleive from that info a mistake was made, yes, appeal. If the information suggests the admission criteria have been applied properly, I don't think your reasons for appealing are very strong. BUT this is based on avid reading of primary admissions info, not secondary. I don't know if there are big differences?

Floggingmolly · 28/02/2015 13:18

You're not actually Catholic yet, but are about to do a 12 week intro????
How did your dd get in? It must have been massively undersubscribed at the time...
Fwiw, most Catholic schools insist on baptism before the age of 6 months (some stipulate 3 months); a 12 week "intro" at the age of 13 sounds strange indeed...

LIZS · 28/02/2015 13:22

Agree flogging, our local church secondary is 3 years' regular attendance, letter from priest and baptism.

Original poster
Boohaven · 28/02/2015 13:38

I'm not catholic my other half is .
When we moved dd was in the last year of primary .i applied for the place and she got it .
The school is a 15 min walk away but dd gets the bus as in winter it's not very well lit area .
The priest was happy to baptise the twins when they were small but wanted my older children from a previous relationship to attend a 12 week course with him to understand more .

OP posts:
titchy · 28/02/2015 13:50

So presumably the school wasn't oversubscribed when your dd applied so she got a place. The school is over subscribed and as your ds isn't (yet) Catholic he was very low down on the criteria so didn't get a place.

You are perfectly welcome to appeal for a place, but being Catholic or intending to be is irrelevant now. You need a reason why this school, and no other, is best for your ds. He is a county standard footballer and they have a football academy onsite for instance. Or he intends to study for Latin degree and this is the only school which offers Latin.

chantico · 28/02/2015 13:51

It's fair normal for converts (ie anyine other than a cradle Catholic) to do a course before reception into the Church, and 3 months sounds about right.

OP: could you confirm where you are? National offers day for England isn't until Monday.

Floggingmolly · 28/02/2015 13:59

It may be, chantico, but it won't circumvent the school admission rules. Especially when they're still in the "intending to do it" stage.

Original poster
Boohaven · 28/02/2015 14:02

I'm in Manchester .
I feel like I've let my family down . I've got to now tell him and dd that they will be going seperate schools .
I don't even know what support is available in the school he's been given .
There are a lot of mums in my local area with there letters this morning

OP posts:
Floggingmolly · 28/02/2015 14:06

Is it really that important to either of them that they go to the same school?

18yearstooold · 28/02/2015 14:08

Quite a few areas have got their offers out

Leeds were released on Thursday

Op you need to review the priority criteria -how far down the list is sibling priority for non catholic applicants?

Does your DS have a statement or EHCP? Is that school particularly good for SEN? Or do you just want him to go because of the sibling link?

chantico · 28/02/2015 14:08

Sorry, I never meant to intend that it should!

I meant only that demonstrating membership of the RC church is required for the higher admission categories, and being a recent convert can be enough. It all depends on that individual school's published criteria. (I think I may have misread an earlier post to think it was worth saying at all).

I think it's the case that published criteria must be followed in all Home Nations, but I'm not terribly familiar with procedures in Scotland or NI (or when Offers Day in those nations and Wales). Or is this an in-year application?

meditrina · 28/02/2015 14:11

"Quite a few areas have got their offers out"

Really? That's very wrong of them. The whole point of having a national offers day is so all offers are made together. It all went to rats in recent years when different LAs did different things around a Sunday. But there really isn't a need for Councils to breach the national offers this time round. Very shoddy.

Original poster
Boohaven · 28/02/2015 14:15

My dd probably not . They keep having a laugh about her having to have him in the same school again .
My son it will , without having to tell everyone my long winded past he will feel left out , there are a few reasons it's still in the intending to do . One of which is a battle with my ex about it , my son wanted to join in with us and be baptised and come church but my ex has been a pain about it as he has no beliefs and thinks he should have waited till 16 to chose .
This with the farther going away twice when I have called to make appointments , getting told of on the phone by the security for saying his name and not farther and my pnd had led to the huge delays .

OP posts:
meditrina · 28/02/2015 14:29

Firstly, I'm sorry that this is all so thought for you.

But secondly, you need to separate out the school's admissions process from all the other Stuff which is going on.

As your DS was not Catholic during the application process, then that is probably a sufficient reason for him not to have secured a place. But still check your letter against the criteria (is your DS in the right category, but as non-Catholic sibling, this will be pretty low down the list).

Does the school have an exceptional social/medical need criterion? Did you try to use it in the original application? This might be the angle to go for - even if short of EHCP, there are needs that you could show were best met in this school. Would you be able to get suitable documentation from HCPs which states clearly why this school, and only this school, can meet his needs?

Then, as this is for an older child, you can also use the 'balance of prejudice' argument: what it is about this school that your DS really needs for his education (that is unavailable elsewhere locally) such that any downside for the school in admitting an extra pupil is far less than the harm to your DS in having an education without those features (music? subject availability? drama?)

AntiquityIsOld · 28/02/2015 14:36

What is the sibling rule? Can't you appeal with that? A non-RC friend did that for RC primary and the head was very supportive because as a Catholic he thought it was important to keep family together. She won.

Original poster
Boohaven · 28/02/2015 14:47

How do I find out what category he is in ? There is a list/table chart that's been sent but I don't understand how I work out where he is on it .
I can speak to the specialist about how this will affect him but time is now againt us again as it takes time to to get a meeting .
I don't have anyone to contact as things have been so settled after the school and home change the other year that there has been no need for any intervention .

OP posts:
meditrina · 28/02/2015 14:56

It ought to be reasonably clear from the letter. Does the table show number of applicants in the category, and the category in which they had to tie break (typically by distance)?

Does it not say anywhere on the letter which category your DS is in? If not, then the communication is inadequate (which is annoying, but not an appeal-winning thing, though you want to show the Admissions Authority as incompetent to strengthen parts of your case).

Original poster
Boohaven · 28/02/2015 15:09

After reading it again I've worked it out but its not staying which category he is in .
According to the chart all pupils with sibling got in , all pupils in the catchment got in it starts to split when we got to siblings out of catchment

OP posts:
Floggingmolly · 28/02/2015 15:12

Are you out of catchment as well as being non Catholic?

Floggingmolly · 28/02/2015 15:13

It has to be fairly self evident what category he's in...

Original poster
Boohaven · 28/02/2015 15:15

No we are in catchment and have a sibling in the school .

OP posts:
LIZS · 28/02/2015 15:21

Are Non Catholic siblings ranked lower than out of catchment Catholic siblings?