Cultural capital = tell me more

[whiskeytangofoxtrot]

So I keep reading about what private education gives you over state is cultural capital. I think I have an idea about this but interested in MNers pov.
tia

Not all private schools give you cultural capital, we've friends who are well educated in terms of exams degrees etc who went to big name independent schools who are as cultured as boulders, and not all children will take advantage of any "cultured capital" offered, assuming it's readily available. But some independent schools offer a much broader curriculum/lots of culturally based extra curricular activities.

If that's all it gives you what a waste of cash! Those with cultured parents will themselves become cultured. Those with parents who place no value on culture will not become cultured, even if it's rammed down their throats at school.

So it's access to fencing and polo and trips to the theatre and museums?

IMHO cultural capital is the skill set to not make a tit of yourself in any social situation.
Be that

• enough information to bluff through most situations
• no hangups about the class / wealth / background of those around you
• the ability to shut up and observe when talking will result in making a tit

even the uber uber schools turn out the odd twonk who let all of the CC input flow over them
and a few non U schools do well at creating it

BUT
the ability to develop Cultural capital is actually a mix of term times and holidays - because it actually reflects

• absolute self security and self confidence in all situations

Cultural capital = comfortable hobnobbing with posh folk

For some that will mean developing old-boys' (or girls') networks that will help them in later life. For many others it won't.

I went to a state school, but have worked alongside, or otherwise become acquainted with, lots of people who went to private schools - in some cases top private schools (my plumber went to Eton no less, and a friend who went to Gordonstoun dropped out of her post-grad course to have a baby and is now a supply teacher).

It all counts for very little once you get to university, and for even less once you've got your first graduate level job.

Cultural capital is not being cultured! As in opera and art.

It's an understanding of how to operate in situations, and the links and contacts that come with a certain upbringing.

Being raised in a privileged way (including private schooling) helps one develop links with others from a similar situation which can have benefits - if you know more people who are responsible for hiring jobs, for example, you can use that capital in order to get yourself a job (very simplistic). It's particularly concerned with power and status.

It's linked to theories of social capital and it's a very interesting concept - I do buy into it.

Cultural capital = comfortable hobnobbing with posh folk
its also the inverse

eg that _awful footage of Millibrain eating a sarnie
if he'd been well educated, he'd have
(a) known how to eat a bacon sarnie
(b) known how to order something he liked in a greasy spoon.

The art of cultural capital cuts both ways

At Buckingham Palace, getting on equally well with the security staff as Randy Andy - because each has its uses

You can have cultured parents titchy but lack an in depth knowledge of music art etc teachers can provide this knowledge. Some schools place a lot of emphasis on the importance of "cultural capital" so ignite interest in a child who's not previously been interested. For example my DS2 is not particularly musical, my DH is and he's been played classical music in particular opera and organ music (wince) all my DS2's life, but this interest in it has not rubbed off onto him. At school they have at least 20 concerns a term, and regular opportunities to see the opera, he 's become much more keen on music and opera in particular (thankfully not the organ) since he's taken up these opportunities.
At DS1's last very well regarded comp we once received an email about a trip to the ROH, my delighted DH quickly replied stating he would very much like DS1 to go, a few days later the reply said that the email had accidentally been sent to all parents but the actually trip was only open to those who did music or drama. When my DH asked if there was a spare place could DS1 still go rather than waste a ticket he was told that as it would mean missing lessons and UK's of no "benefit" to him in terms of his up coming GCSE's therefore no he couldn't go.

I wasn't that familiar with the term "cultural capital" till it was used on another thread this evening. Perhaps either the poster used it incorrectly or I misunderstood it. Will google it.

"The term cultural capital refers to non-financial social assets that promote social mobility beyond economic means. Examples can include education, intellect, style of speech, dress, or physical appearance."
Ok here's a definition interesting not quite what I understood by the term and here's a link if you're really interested.

happy
Its come up over the past few weeks in various threads to try to elucidate the difference between schools like the one your DS attends and say HCS
But actually it really comes down to a misunderstanding by those who want school to do all the work for them rather than reinforce home.

TBH my kids would have kittens if exposed to as much opera as your DS - being dragged to Glyndebourne once a year is more than enough for us!

I personally have absolutely no interest in social mobility for my DS's or myself. But I do think being cultured is very positive for an individual because it changes your outlook on the world in general and how you experience it.

happy
I personally have absolutely no interest in social mobility for my DS's or myself.
But you are already an A1 in the social scale so you have nowhere up to go. Therefore that comment is somewhat disingenuous.
Your choice of schooling has reinforced your childrens' places at/near the top of the heap.
I suspect you are not seeking for them to move downwards.
For those starting lower down the heap, moving up is deeply, deeply important.

As somebody who comes from old money that due to longevity has so far passed me by, I am aware that
my parents boarded, I went private , my kids have gone state
BUT
the outlook is, as near as I can manage, unchanged

Talkin it simply comes down to whatever floats your boat. Although I have to say seeing an opera live bring a whole new perspective and few could really fail to like the Magic Flute if they give it a chance. I personally can't stand organ music which I call "drone" or my DH's other passion the harpsichord which a I call "plink" years of exposure have enabled me to come to this decision. But I started out my married life not overly enamoured by opera (my DM loved Beethoven) nearly 30 years of exposure to opera later I don't like all of it certainly but I do love lots of opera. Ditto oratorio when I first heard Israel in Egypt/Judas Maccabaeus I really wasn't keen but over time I've been worn down grown to like it. Being exposed to things we don't actually think we'll like and discovering some are ok I think encourages us to broaden our horizons. We have a record of Benjamin Britten's the Pilgrim Progress read by the wonderful John Gielgud, a book and a composer that doesn't really do it for me, but I do enjoy it. The other week I was listening to Ravels piano concerto again not a composer Im naturally drawn to but if you discover one piece of music isn't as bad as you thought you begin to realise that this could apply to others.
But if you've never been for what ever reason to the opera or heard it or 18th century organ music, Chopins waltzes, seen contemporary ballet or looked at Rembrandt how can you know if you actually missing something and would love it and get great pleasure it? My mother by the way believed Beethoven "fed your sole".
I don't think we can be exposed to too much culture.

Talkin I said I personally have no interest in social mobility but of course I accept moving up is important for many in fact essential for many. I would like those at the bottom to be exposed to more culture not because I think in the 21st century it will enhance social mobility (let's face it it's going to take a whole lot more than that) but just because I think it improves quality of life and that's something many from all social classes need; the news is so depressing.

But that is a very narrow view of culture that is North European post renaissance performance art.

My kids get

• botanic gardens - street theatre - ballet - religious festivals around the world - industrial heritage - architecture - stately homes - ancient ruins - battlefields / military - political history

as well as opera and concerts (from heavy metal to chamber)

I just tend to not expect the school to provide it.

So, what is your opinion OP?

snigger at 'fed your sole' happygardening!
I agree with your mother though.

Oh, if only we could all be worn down by oratorio and suffer years of drone and plink!

"Snigger at "fed your sole"
My DM was tragically tormented by her Alzheimer's, she became increasingly paranoid, Beethoven definitely "fed her sole" then. It was once of the few times she could find peace.

We played part of a Beethoven symphony at her funeral, I sometimes hear it in my dreams and now when I hear it in real life I cry, my DM is now permanently connected to this piece of music and now it's feeding my sole, gently reminding of my now lost mother I can see her so clearly when ever I hear it.

What do I think?

Well, I was educated privately and FELT I had cultural capital in as much as talking to anyone side of things. I have come across a fair amount of inverse snobbery (people calling me posh if they find out I went to boarding school) which I laugh off.

I don't know what i mean really. Realised in the last 12 months or so that we won't be able to educate our DC in the same way that DH and I were, so trying to formulate plans to ensure that they grow up with the same advantages - and trying to work out what those "advantages" were iykwim.

Certainly the fact that half a million quids worth of school fees has meant that DH and I now can't afford to send our DC private is one thing worth thinking about.

" trying to work out what those "advantages" were iykwim."
Hence scouring the state v private threads obsessively and wondering about this and starting this thread. Sorry not v clear with this.

whiskey as you obviously realise paying for education does not guarantee financial advantages in terms of earnings later in life.
Boarding school fees are definitely out of the reach of even those on good salaries. I think read somewhere that only 1% of the UK population earn more than 100k that not enough for your average family with a mortgage etc to put even 1 child through boarding school.

Which symphony? 3 and 9 are my absolute favourites.

OP- so many now cannot educate their children as they were educated, simply because the exponential fee increases over the past 20 years have sent fee-paying schools out of the reach of ordinary middle class occupations.

80% of parents at my childrens schools are medics (G.P.s, consultants, surgeons, psychiatrists, dentists etc). The others are an assortment of law, academia, 'new' industries, family money (v. v. few tbh), staff at the school. When I think about the people I was at university with, the only ones that can afford to send their children fee-paying are those that went into the city.

I think the cultural capital that people are trying to provide for their children by sending them to fee-paying schools isn't actually something that comes from those schools (except for the v very few top-flight schools such as Eton coll etc). That cultural capital comes from their parents and their family itself. It is taken in by osmosis from the womb onwards.
I think there are significant numbers of people that think sending little Harriet to St Margaret-le-posh in a felt hat will confer some sort of backstage pass to the upper echelons of British society.

The at times haunting 3rd AllYourBases.