Cultural capital = tell me more

[whiskeytangofoxtrot]

So I keep reading about what private education gives you over state is cultural capital. I think I have an idea about this but interested in MNers pov.
tia

Ah. I listen to 3rd most often, probably due to my personality (not ebullient enough for 9th).
Alzheimers is a vile disease; may peace be upon her, and music lift her immortal soul.

Happy I am so sorry about your DM
Allyourbase puts this v eloquently, alas it is late and my brain is like tapioca.

Your right AllYourBases my DM was also never ebullient enough for the 9th.
Thank you for your kind words, our mothers are very important to us.

"I think there are significant numbers of people that think sending little Harriet to St Margaret-le-posh in a felt hat will confer some sort of backstage pass to the upper echelons of British society."
Why anyone would want a "back stage pass to the upper echelons of British Society is beyond my comprehension what so people who feel like this think they will get if they do achieve this? In real life it's not like Downton. Many who've achieved great wealth (I'm talking about oligarchs and billionaires) have achieved this by being utterly ruthless and by getting their own way all the time, who wants to mix with these sort of people?

Indeed!
But look at all the threads on here, obsessed with what 'privilege' or advantage private [sic] schools will give their children. Tbh, I think most of them are telegraph and times journalists, and more niche publications needing something for their latest column
The situation is this: schools have realised that fees have been pushed too far beyond the reach of most families from which they traditionally drew their pupils. Schools become flooded with those that can actually afford to pay. Non-British first-time buyers swamp schools. Non-first time buyers think this isn't the experience we had, we're off. British first-time buyers then think- well, this isn't what we were paying for (contacts, taps side of nose), we're off. Schools become further flooded with overseas pupils.

I think many long-established schools are worried that as their clientele has changed so dramatically, they cannot offer the traditional experience any longer. Additionally, compounding the problem, non first-time buyer families are having fewer children, as there are really very few families left untouched by the economic situation of the last few years.

I think this is why we have a proliferation of articles about what it is that fee-paying schools can actually give ones child, because they have to woo back the families that traditionally attended.

Cultural capital has nothing to do with culture. Nor has it anything to do with being able to people ( though both those things can have value of course).

Cultural capital is the knowledge, the skills, the qualifications and tastes shared by the current dominant group.

This cultural capital can then be transferred into real capital. Especially by our DC.

Independent schools are well placed to supply cultural capital because they are full of the dominant group. The school community lives and breathes the currency.

Indeed pupils from overseas add to the sum of cultural capital, since the dominant group is more and more global.

Of course we all have cultural capital.

However some if it is far more valuable and more easily transferred into real capital than others.

In the experiences I have, cultural capital in modest private schools includes:

• strict uniform code...definite difference in first jobs. I wouldn't dream of going to work without a blazer and stockings or a skirt much above the knee...those from less strict schools frequently went to job interviews in "casual" attire (to me).
• strict on manners and etiquette.
• strict on speech and grammar (no swearing, slang etc). More formal assemblies etc. public speaking skills encouraged.

From these things alone, you can identify most private school kids, unless their parents were traditional about these things. It can give an edge in getting jobs.

Then there's a whole other area of connections and ability to row a boat if you go to a really expensive school!

Cultural capital is not necessarily having a favourite Beethoven symphony; but it is knowing that Beethoven symphonies exist, where one might hear them, being able to respond appropriately if you heard one.

I gained most of my cultural capital through reading. I have never been to the opera, nor really want to, but if I did, I wouldn't sit there baffled while it all went over my head. I'd know where to find out about the story and the composer and would have a basic understanding of the historical context.

It's more than that though brian it's about how that knowledge of classical music could be turned into real capital.

Knowledge for itself is a wonderful thing , but it's not cultural capital,

I think it's very difficult to talk generally, since private schools cover such a broad spectrum of quality. I went to an extremely local, non-selective private school. I can safely say that I gained zero convertible cultural capital and academically probably would have done as well at the local comp, so that school is an excellent argument for "don't waste your money". However, had I gone to, say, St Paul's, that would have been an entirely different experience. I have no doubt that my expectations of myself on leaving would have been greater, purely as a result of the normalisation of extreme achievement in those environments. Now, possibly that leads to all sorts of problems in terms of pressure etc, but it also produces a huge number of people who reach the upper echelons of the best paid professions. I remain convinced that the normalisation of high achievement, which makes it seem so much more attainable than if you've never met anyone who is (e.g.) an investment banker, is more important than things like the old boys network.

Obviously, I'm talking about achievement in a single dimension (i.e. lots of the folding stuff) but that's what social inequality boils down to ultimately, so if we're trying to decide what impact private education has, it's not a bad measure.

I'd never heard of cultural capital until reading various threads talking about it! So does that mean that I when tell the anti-private school ILs that one of the reasons we've gone private is to ensure that DC are comfortable around people from all sorts of backgrounds, that I'm really talking about cultural capital? I think their heads might explode if I use that term in front of them!

Bases In my world people who use words like

flooded

and

swamped

to denigrate other human beings are considered beyond the pale.

aggressive I have one at a big name public school and one at a middle of the road private and actually I've found a lot of valuable cultural capital to be accessed at the later.

Partly I think because it's so tight knit. Small, all girls. Everyone knows each other. Favours are done here - you'd feel perfectly comfortable asking and giving. DS school is far more anonymous.

Second, the set up means girls over perform academically and so are propelled into spheres which are more usually available only to the very able.

Though to be fair because it's close to London the parent body has lots of valuable CC which would make it different to a school of its kind elsewhere.

Schools that offer no "cultural capital" experience - and I presume that is most state schools - really let down their pupils, imo.

When I was at primary school in the 1970s, a village primary taking all-comers, we all had to display the most excellent table manners when having our school dinners. The headmaster strode through the hall and swiped at anyone's elbows on the table, or corrected anyone using a knife like a pen. No-one, no matter what their background, left that school without manners so good they could pass the Foreign Office etiquette test (does that still exist?!!).

Sadly now children all eat like they're at a chimps tea party and there are no fierce head teachers and redoubtable dinner ladies correcting their manners.

What really sent steam blasting from my ears was when, as a governor, I suggested that a wider range of music could be played to the dcs at primary school, instead of the pop music that piped them into assembly or accompanied lunch. I was told in a rather frosty manner that, "Not all children can access classical music. It's not enjoyable." I could barely speak. So you believe that broadening a child's world shouldn't be done because it's not fun . Sigh.

brenda all schools provide cultural capital.

Where you have a community you have a culture. And every culture has it's own set of knowledge, skills, tastes etc.

I grew up in a working class council estate. I had a very rich culture.

It's just that some cultures are more valuable ( ie can be turned into real capital) than others.

Though I should say that I have translated my working class culture into lots of pretty green. But this is unusual.

I was using the term cultural capital as is generally understood - and defined upthread. Of course everywhere and everyone has their own cultural capital. A wide-ranging knowledge is preferable to a narrow one. I heard Stephen Hawking's wife on the radio and when asked about the Oscars she was quite dismissive, saying, "Oh, I don't know anything about that - they're not interesting to someone like me." Now, I didn't think, Gosh, how cultured, I thought she sounded snobby and ignorant.

So what are the skills, qualifications, tastes and knowledge shared by the current dominant group?

Zero - were I disparaging people, I would agree.

You are either being dishonest or you have a cloth ear for use of language.

Non-British first-time buyers swamp schools. Non-first time buyers think this isn't the experience we had, we're off. British first-time buyers then think- well, this isn't what we were paying for (contacts, taps side of nose), we're off. Schools become further flooded with overseas pupils.

You wouldn't mind being told that you and your kind were flooding / swamping decent schools and driving out the natural clientele?

Why pretend that you don't know what those words mean?

Would you think it acceptable to use that language about state school pupils?

In reality are "Non British first time buyers" swamping schools?
I accept that some boarding schools have more international students than they used to have simply because the number of UK parents with the odd spare £35k that they can afford to stump up every year is dwindling rapidly but are day schools swamped as well? Surely it's geographically dependent I very much doubt any day schools in our area are.
Secondly are non British first time buyers a bad thing? I'm delighted that my DS meets a broad cross section of nationalities I would hate it if all his friends were British.
Thirdly I'm not convinced that schools can't and indeed don't offer the "traditional experience" if their schools are swamped with non British first time buyers because I think that's what the parents of these children want they're paying for their DS to play rugby in the pissing rain, and weird uniforms etc.
Fourthly as we now live in a globalised society I think you'll find non British first time buyers are not short of a few useful contacts (taps side of nose) if you were after that sort of thing!
Aussie my DS goes to a "really expensive school" and he can't row a boat.
I'm not sure about the etiquette thing either as I'm not sure what sort of things you mean but he doesn't have etiquette lessons.

happy they're a concern to Little Englanders.

But let's be honest here , the trad middle classes are abandoning private education because quite simply they can't afford it.

They package it up differently but that's the truth.

I dont know, my state ed DD was spending a week at a rather well known equestrian centre, and the obviously privately ed daughter of the house took her to the supermarket as they both needed some things, well dd was mortified as posh daughter of the house found it amusing to follow people around, pretending to...lets say, have severe learning difficulties.
DD had to pretend not be with her.
Who had more 'cultural capital'?

Yes maybe the little Englanders are concerned but frankly a I can live without them and their narrow outlook on life. I hope that being exposed to a broad education with pupils from many different countries will in fact make you a more tolerant individual.
And I have already acknowledged the fact that many of the middle classes can't afford school fees.
In what way are they packaging things up differently?
I just don't see this at my DS's school for example in fact the complete opposite.