Do you think private schools give your children a advantage in life ?

[mistybear]

I am thinking of going back to work full time so I can send my dd to a private secondary school. My husband and I keep going around in circles of whether or not there is any advantage to a private education. We are not rich hence having to work full time to afford it and this is one of the questions, will having parents that are not that well off be a massive problem being at private school, we are not in London and the area we live in is not massively affluent. One of the reasons I keep thinking about it is that the people I have as friends and some of my family that have been privately educated are doing well and more importantly doing a job they wanted to do. My dd is hardworking and has already achieved her leaving school targets even though she is in year five, the state secondary schools around us are not the best but a couple are not too bad educational wise but all of them do not have clubs and sports that the private school has. She loves her violin, science and space also her ponies and she loves her warhammer !! she is also a only child x

Senua... personally I don’t think it’s about whether there is or isn’t a decline (I believe the jury is still out on that one), but it’s about people’s perception. I had a recent conversation with an academic who was bemoaning the fact that the life they had as a child (private school/holidays) would be out of reach for their kids-yet they were in very similar professions to their parents….

I've never heard anyone in RL talk about "top independent". Or a "top comprehensive" either. Very odd.

hettie I meet a lot of people like that.

Middle class people who chose employment that simply does not pay for the standard of living they grew up enjoying.

The downwardly mobile.

It's very common in London.

bemoaning the fact that the life they had as a child (private school/holidays) would be out of reach for their kids-yet they were in very similar professions to their parents….

Yeah, but do we actually need private education? Mine got into RG from comprehensive school. I'm quite pleased that we decided not to pay - turns out that it was not necessary.

I think it depends on the area of the country. The Edinburgh schools had a bit of consolidation a while ago, but the remaining ones are thriving. Something like 25% of Edinburgh pupils are privately educated. There's money in Edinburgh but an awful lot of the private school parents have middle class jobs- university lecturers, marketing managers, IT managers etc. The fees at most of the day schools (there are a couple of exceptions) are around £10k pa and with housing a fraction of the London cost, it's still affordable for a decent chunk of the population.

My children are at private schools and there certainly won't be a trust fund for them to buy a first flat with later on in life. We lurch financially to get them through and I'm hoping they will be able to stand on their own two feet when they leave, that's surely the whole point of sending them privately? As for connections, well possible but really most of the other parents are like us, only a couple of fairly wealthy families I would say.

Sorry, I was replying to a post on page one dinner and all that stuff got in the way and I forgot that I had another 8 pages to read through first - apologies and off to read the rest of it now.

Paperdoll - I've already explained what I meant, regarding my £150k income comment.

I'm well aware that's it's not 'average' in terms of UK income.

Nationaltrusthandbook - as a matter of interest, since you raised the subject, do you ever wonder/worry whether being able to help your children onto the housing ladder, or fund unpaid internships, or help them start up a business, might be money better spent? And were their state options really awful and the private school amazing, or just, eg, OK and better?

ZeroFun, that's not the case. Do you have any first hand experience of this being so? My own tells me it's quite to the contrary. It's a common misconception and judgement. Not a true one.

dapplegrey

A combination of Facebook and lots of people being very googleable!

A first name, surname and hometown will tell you quite a lot about a lot of people.

Jackie - good point, I hadn't thought of that.

word.. downwardly mobile....well I suppose with house prices in the south east being what they are that will be true of lots of people. But I do find it odd. It doesn't seem very reflective. Things change, the world moves on house prices go through the roof it's a bit much to expect things to be the same for the next generation just becasue they are 'middle class proffesionals'. I'd hazard a guess that most of the downwardly mobiles that you meet haven't got a clue how well off they are (in relation to the rest of the UK- see paperdolls link). No I can't afford to send my kids to private school (wouldn't want to anway- but that's a whole other debate ) and no I can't afford to be saving for my retirement and yes I holiday in wet and windy wales in a tent but we are still wealthy in comparison to most people- and I consider myself incredibly fortunate...

OneDecision I had to scroll back a fair way as I couldn't remember what I said. If it was about children going into "top" schools already being winners in life's race - well yes of course I meant it and of course I'm speaking from experience.

I had earlier (I hope on this thread) said that the advantages very wealthy children left such schools with were probably in their possession before they entered the school. In the later post I was also thinking of children who may be virtually penniless but have noticeably quick brains, charm and parents with enough (phrase of the day) cultural capital to know how to push them forward even without money.

Is that what you were referring to? I'm perfectly happy to accept that your experience might be different.

rabbitstew I do agonise about it I must say. I have twins and they went to a good little state primary but we live in a grammar area and they never stood a chance of passing the 11+ and the alternatives are really pretty awful. They were very premature and have always been quite disadvantaged by this, working a good year or two behind all the other children. We tried having them held back a year and/or statemented but the LEA wouldn't allow it so we felt we had to send them privately in Y5.

The school is non-selective and offers lots of help for DC's that need extra tuition so it works well for us. I do think that it's the best use of the money (financial assistance from GP's too) as they need the help now rather than in the future (although that would be nice too). It is a lovely school but if I had had good state provision locally then I would have gone for that (I think?!).

The contact advantage doesn't interest me one jot and I can hand over heart say that I would be more than happy for them to end up as kayaking instructors!! I'm not really pushy enough for all this and do feel a bit of an oddity compared to some of the other parents. I want them to have a good experience of school, to enjoy it and hopefully come out at the end with some decent qualifications.

I assume by "advantage in life" the OP means an advantage over others. I am not sure about this and it's not why I chose private education for my dc's.

Similar to thewordfactory I chose private over state because I think it gives my children the best opportunity to be HAPPY and to be the best that they can be. They will be at school for 15 years, I want as much of it as possible to be happy and fulfilling and encouraging. We can afford private, and the state options near us do not offer anywhere near the same quality of teaching, facilities, breadth of education etc...

Will they end up with an advantage? Possibly, but the advantage we are investing in is for them to be the best that they can be, the comparison with others is irrelevant for DH and me. As for the whole networking thing, I'll be honest and say it never even occurred to me. DH was privately educated and has never derived any professional benefit from it.

Your view seems to be that because you rate it, then so must I. But why would that be so?

I think word has summed it up, really. We all look for different things for our children, so it's not at all surprising that we make different choices. (Those of us who are fortunate enough to be in a position to make choices, that is - I realise that many have no choice.)

I am quite familiar with what goes on in the so-called "top" private schools, and I have many friends who attended such schools. Some are choosing to educate their DCs in this way. Personally, I have not found anything in these schools that I value that I am unable to obtain in the state sector or through extra-curricular activities/family life etc. Parents like happy and word clearly place a different value on some of these things. I don't think any of us are right or wrong.

Ultimately, I think it boils down to values and confidence - what each parent considers to be important for a "good education", the degree of confidence that parents have in their own ability to provide an excellent education in line with those values, and the degree of confidence that they have in their children's ability to flourish and succeed wherever they are.

Obviously, those who have chosen to pay for private schooling believe that it has a value, otherwise they wouldn't spend so much money on it. Meanwhile, those of us who could comfortably afford to pay school fees but choose to use the state system instead feel that there is no real benefit in going private. Ultimately, I guess it will depend on the individual child and the specific range of schools available to you.

I also think it's important to remember that when people talk about the advantages kids get from private school, they forget that those kids were privileged from birth anyway, whatever school they went to. The self confidence thing for a start- being born not poor and into the middle classes is pretty confidence boosting. Having parents who insist on a particular type of behaviour and "manners"- (not better, just posh!) Good if school reinforces it, but it comes from home first.

And happygardening, for example, waxes understandably lyrical about her ds's experience at school. But his school is no more typical of private education than the Mumsnet perception of chair throwing and knuckle dragging is typical of state education!

snape I can assure you that my fellow parents at DC's schools don't lack confidence .

They are a ...ahem...self assured bunch.

As for me? Do I lack confidence in my own abilities to parent? Well I'm not complacent that's for sure. I constantly reassess and improve. I hope.

But ultimately, I'm a realist. I cannot provide what my DC's schools provide (including DD's school which is not Big Name). I am one of the most energetic and motivated people you're likely to meet, but I am one woman. I have one pair of hands and 24 hours in a day. Even if I devoted my entire existence to my DC (which I have no intention of doing) I couldn't give them what their schools give them.

And of course I could say to hell with it. No child needs all that stuff. They'll be fine anyway (and they probably would, right?).

But it's not about need. It's about what I want to provide for them.

hak you're right.

Many/most of the children at DC's schools are absurdly advantaged before they even walk through the gate.

I remember driving up to their prep school to be shown around and thinking exactly that. Just look at these kids; they have so much (and I don't mean material things, though they have that too).

And then they have that wonderful school lavished on them...

I remember feeling a bit uncomfortable, but at the same time being very certain that I had no intention of denying that school for my DC because of my (temporary) discomfort.

It's ironic that the kids who would most benefit from the advantages of private school are the ones who old never come within a million miles of going to one!

Well the tax payer's never gonna fund that hak

For me it's far more important that we focus on providing a level of state education that offers a consistently good standard. The provision in the UK is far too patchy.

Hak I was one of those children as was my husband. We both went to state primary schools. Both sets of parents working class. In my husband's case he was the first in his family to go to university.

Both my husband and I got full academic scholarships to two very good and well known independents. My experience of the private sector is that they do what they can to broaden their intake. I am an example of that.

My personal view is that the private school bashers need to focus their energy on improving the state sector and less time agonising the rights and wrongs of the private sector.

Nobody is "bashing" private schools.

But I would be very interested in seeing how they are doing everything they can to broaden their intake.