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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Options -how bad is it not to do a MFL at GCSE.

22 replies

snozzlemaid · 08/02/2015 17:42

Dd is in year 8 and about to choose her options. She is very bright and excels at all things she tries, so all subject teachers are very keen for her to take their subject.
She doesn't have to take a language and is swaying towards not taking one. She wants to do something with science for a career and is doing excellently at science and Maths.
Is it going to be any disadvantage to her if she does no MFL? I've not known MFL not be compulsory before. My experience with older dc is that you had to do a language.

OP posts:

BeeRayKay · 08/02/2015 17:47

Personally, I think she should do a MFL, Spanish preferably.

Because

a/. Spanish is widely spoken, it makes holidays a lot easier.
b/. its an extra thing to put on the CV even it's only at intermediate level.
c/. it actually helps cement rules and understanding of the English language.

Original poster

snozzlemaid · 08/02/2015 18:34

I think if she was to do one if would be French as that's what she had been doing up to now.

OP posts:

imjustahead · 08/02/2015 18:42

dd also year 8 and choosing. she isn't doing a language either.
i see no point in forcing her when she wants to do two other things connected specifically to what she wants as a career path.

Original poster

snozzlemaid · 08/02/2015 18:46

Thanks. That's my thoughts too. Especially as she is so determined with science.
It just seems to go against what I've known up to now.

OP posts:

clary · 08/02/2015 19:42

It worries me when schools insist that students choose in year 8. So after just four terms of most subjects (realistically!) and less of some - our school does ex arts on a rota so may only have had about 15 lessons of music by now in year 8 - they have to pick what they want to study to KS4 level? Anyway...

MFL is not generally compulsory (it is in some schools, sometimes just for top sets) but I would recommend that a bright student take it unless there was some massive issue.

Science and maths - well she will be taking those anyway, whatever she picks. What is she thinking of doing if not MFL? She will presumably have 3-4 options so choosing a language is not going to limit her.

If she is very keen on science, an MFL will show breadth and a wider knowledge. Also it is useful for understanding English. Employers and Unis will like it. Does she do German? That is the highest-rated language for business and also traditionally has strong connections to science/engineering jobs.

(Oh: I teach French and German so I would say all that!)

MaraThonbar · 08/02/2015 19:50

Potentially a disadvantage for university admissions. Many like to see a language for GCSE, even for wholly unrelated subjects.

caringdad66 · 08/02/2015 20:11

Not many universities insist on a MFL

uilen · 08/02/2015 20:13

Potentially a disadvantage for university admissions. Many like to see a language for GCSE, even for wholly unrelated subjects.

Many is an exaggeration - it would only be for over-subscribed courses and is not going to be the deal breaker for unrelated subjects, such as science and maths. People sometimes write that UCL insist on a GCSE MFL but they don't - although they make students who don't have one do a short MFL course, I believe.

On the other hand, excluding yourself from any university courses (or putting yourself at a potential disadvantage for some) at the age of 13/14 seems a bit silly. A child of that age might think they want to study maths at York or physics at Nottingham (for which the lack of MFL would make no difference) but later change their mind and want to do history at Oxford etc for which the lack of MFL would be more significant.

VivaLeBeaver · 08/02/2015 20:16

I think UCL are the only Uni who insist on an MFL.

So disadvantages....she wouldn't be able to go to UCL, she would be able to do a mfl degree, she wouldn't get a job as a translator, she wouldn't get a job where an ability to be able to order food in French is a requirement, she might struggle ordering food when on holiday in France.

If none of those problems are a concern don't worry about it.

Original poster

snozzlemaid · 08/02/2015 20:57

She has French, History and Geography all in the same column of which she has to choose one. She currently prefers History.
History and Geography are also in another column, but this column includes photography that she really wants to do and has her heart set on for a long time.

I know photography won't help her academically, but I do believe she should have one subject that's less academic for a bit of light relief.

OP posts:

18yearstooold · 08/02/2015 20:58

Dd is same year and doing her options

She's adamant that she wants to drop MFL and do Latin after a taster session

I think she's bonkers and i'm trying to convince her to do Spanish

MaraThonbar · 08/02/2015 21:15

I don't suggest that universities publish any requirement for MFL GCSE as part of their admissions. Nevertheless, if your DD is applying for a course which does not interview (so, most except Oxbridge and medicine) then she needs to distinguish herself on paper. When every candidate has AAA* predictions, fabulous personal statements, and outstanding references, then admissions tutors have to drill down into previous achievements to make distinctions and they will inevitably, therefore, look at GCSE results. I agree that year 8 is far too early to make these decisions but equally it would be madness to shut this door so early when your DD may yet find aptitudes and interests that may not even have occurred to her yet.

MaraThonbar · 08/02/2015 21:20

Oops, formatting fail - meant A A A*.

Essexmum69 · 09/02/2015 07:40

Some of the academically selective sixth forms insist on a MFL at GCSE.
The problem is she is very young still. We can only discuss what uni admissions want at present, however AS levels are changing and offers are thus more likely to be based on GCSEs in the future rather than on AS levels as they are now. Generally more schools IME are making an MFL compulsary than they were 10 years ago so in 5 years time when she is applying for university the situation may be different.
At this age (I also hate year 8 options) she needs to keep as many options open as possible.

bcareathe · 09/02/2015 08:49

GCSE content is not very exciting, and there are many other ways to learn languages now. How about letting her do the GCSEs she wants, but insisting she choose a language available in Duolingo (eg French) and spend a few concentrated minutes on it a few times a week? Between now and GCSE she'd learn enough that the GCSE would be a piece of cake. If she encounters a sixth form college or university too rigid to accept that instead of the piece of paper, bad sign anyway.

yellowdaisies · 09/02/2015 10:03

My DS was pushed into taking a language by his school. He's Y10 now and bitterly regretting it. He hates it, won't learn and I'm wishing I hadn't encouraged him to do it.

Does she actually like French? Is she good at it (and I would form your own opinion here - my DS somehow had a level 6 in it at the end of Y9 which I think was complete fabrication)

History and Geography are both good academic subjects too, so I would see no reason to push her into French if she'd prefer one of them.

uilen · 09/02/2015 10:10

UCL do not insist on an MFL GCSE, see

www.ucl.ac.uk/prospective-students/undergraduate/application/requirements/a-levels

As I wrote above, if you don't have a language GCSE or equivalent you would have to do a short course.

Of course this doesn't mean the lack of language GCSE won't affect getting an offer from them for specific subjects.

Marathornbar - there aren't many courses for which all applicants have AAA predictions. If there were, then AAA offers would be commonplace. I don't actually know of any course making AAA offers - the highest I know of is AA*AA + STEP (Maths). Only a very small number of courses are going to look at specific GCSE subjects as part of their decision - for most courses 8+ academic GCSEs will top grades would be fine.

CrazyTights · 11/02/2015 07:27

My eldest didn't do a language because she hates languages. School said not to do one just so the school get the tick in the box for languages as it was more important to do what was right for them. They went on to do sciences at university and knew that was the plan so it was never an issue. They could always do it at night school if they wanted to.

Original poster

snozzlemaid · 11/02/2015 07:57

Thanks CrazyTights, that's what I've told her. On the advice of a teacher I've checked UCAS website for entry requirements for the sort of subjects she may be interested in and only one lists a MFL as a GCSE requirement.

OP posts:

Coconutty · 11/02/2015 18:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

snozzlemaid · 11/02/2015 19:16

Form submitted this evening and no MFL picked as first choice. She has put French as a reserve choice in one group though.
So glad the decision's been made, she's been getting really stressed over what to pick.

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MillyMollyMama · 12/02/2015 13:09

The choices at GCSE should be wide to keep options open. They should not be overly career focused and photography is somewhat odd when you can easily do it at A level without the GCSE. Academic people can get As in all their subjects which will include an MFL. This is why the top schools expect children to take one. Specialising at GCSE closes doors. For someone who is very bright, not doing MFL makes her less attractive on highly selective university courses than similar very bright children with the A at MFL. Photography is hardly a substitute and is time consuming.

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