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Secondary education

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Original poster

Shouting teacher....

93 replies

Hakluyt · 02/02/2015 14:46

I was in DS's school library today, and heard a teacher shouting from three closed doors away. I couldn't hear what he was saying, but it was obviously thqt he was shouting at one particular child, or a couple- it didn't sound, somehow, like a whole class rant (not sure how I know that, now I type it, but for some reason it was obvious). The child I was working with grinned and said "oh, there's Mr X off on one again"
Now I know Mr X, he is incredibly enthusiastic and popular teacher. My ds loves him and learnt loads when he was in his class. I knew he was a bit volatile, but ds found his classes exciting and lively. So maybe the shouting is just part of his style. But surely it shouldn't be?

OP posts:
Quitethewoodsman · 03/02/2015 22:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MillyMollyMama · 03/02/2015 22:51

Quite. What you are referring to is to prevent discussion of school matters with people who have an interest in what goes on there such as other teachers, parents, journalists, or even children. It is not designed to prevent people having a general discussion on a forum. We don't know who the op is talking about or what school and it I s certainly not a matter that is being discussed by the Governing Body. It is simply a discussion about whether teachers should shout at pupils.

BackforGood · 03/02/2015 22:52

I agree with Curly on P1 and then most of the P2 posters.
You've said - "he's incredibly enthusiastic and popular teacher"
You've said - the child you were with grinned, and said he's off on one again.

Clearly he's not intimidating or scaring the children, he just has a style that is different from yours, or what you'd like.

Sounds a bit like Brian Blessed to me - he's done alright with a fair bit of shouting hasn't he ? Wink

Quitethewoodsman · 03/02/2015 23:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

holmessweetholmes · 04/02/2015 06:34

Thanks Curly. Yes, it is sad. Teaching in state secondaries was always a hard job, but it felt worth it, and enjoyable in spite of behaviour issues etc. But slowly the job has changed. Instead of trying to support teachers in their efforts to educate and look after young people (which is, after all, what we go into the job for - why else would anyone do it? ) governments just continue to heap pressure on, constantly and pointlessly move the goalposts and demonise teachers by implying that it is entirely their fault when absurd targets are not always met. Thereby burying their heads in the sand about the real truth - that it is only social change that will really have much effect on the performance of failing schools. That and removing unnecessary admin and data - production which currently take up a ridiculous amount of teachers' time.

I know I sound old-fashioned and I know I have departed from the point of the thread, but I remember when teaching was just.... teaching, planning, marking and pastoral care. It has turned into jumping through hoops and data management... spending more time proving what you do than actually doing it. Schools and politicians have lost sight of education actually is. Sad Apologies - rant over.

NorwaySpruce · 04/02/2015 06:52

Some teachers are just loud.

I had a history teacher whou bellowed everything at ear ringing volume. The more interesting/exciting the topic, the louder he got.

It didn't matter whether we were silent or chatty, that man was incapable of using a normal speaking voice.

He was lovely. No one was afraid of him, though visitors were frequently alarmed, and he was one one the most popular and respected teachers I have ever come across.

Come to think of it, my daughter's clarinet teacher also struggles with volume control, and is very enthusiastic. Hearing 'NO NO NO, UP, UP....YEEEESSSS!' Echoing down the corridor leaves all the waiting parents like this Grin

Violettadoesthekondo · 04/02/2015 06:56

Shouting shows a lack of control. It's a poor discipline method for everyone.

emkana · 04/02/2015 07:05

Are you a teacher Violetta?

holmessweetholmes · 04/02/2015 08:38

It can show a lack of control, Violetta, if it is used all the time. The question is, why there is a lack of control. People are very quick to say lack of control equals bad teacher. But lack of control is often at least partly due to ... uncontrollable kids, lack of support from senior management, poor sanctions policy, poor parental support and poor example set by parents, plus of course the kids' knowledge that there is not that much the teacher or school can actually do about bad behaviour. (Yeah - like I'm going to turn up to detention! etc)

Violettadoesthekondo · 04/02/2015 08:50

Yes I am a teacher. Yes bad classroom control does not equal bad teaching. The teacher in question probably just needs more support/training

pieceofpurplesky · 04/02/2015 14:26

What do you teach Violetta and what age/type of school? Just curious - have you never raised your voice?

Pengyquin · 04/02/2015 14:30

Oh for goodness sake! He was shouting. BIG DEAL!!!!

Kids need to live in the real world. In the real world, they will end up in a work environment with a shouty boss/team leader/etc at some point.

Typical school governor - thinks they know better how to teach/control a class than the teacher does.

Is suggest you take a class for the day and see how you get on?

Original poster
Hakluyt · 04/02/2015 14:52

Don't people get cross on the Internet!

OP posts:
emkana · 04/02/2015 15:09

Is that really the only response you have considering all the points that have been raised in answer to your op?

DrankSangriaInThePark · 04/02/2015 15:15

Wind 'em up, watch 'em go.

What would I feel/do if I were in my child's school and I heard a teacher that my child really liked shouting?

a) I wouldn't be in my child's school, nothing worse than those dreadful parents who "volunteer" or shoehorn their way in any which way in order to nose, and then criticise.

b) I'd think "oh, that sounds like Mr X, who DS really loves. He must have a really good relationship with my child, what with my child being a lovely studious type, and what with poor Mr X having to pu up with the kind of teenage tantrum he's obviously having to put up with right now

c) I'd think "pah, some parents, can't even bring their kids up to behave in class"

d) I would never involve school governors in anything. Ever. I don't want some wannabe deciding my child's education. I prefer to leave it to professionals who've had years of training, not Mrs Bored Housewife 1949.

HarrietVane99 · 04/02/2015 15:16

If he teaches literature or history I can quite imagine he might raise his voice for dramatic effect at times - doing a bit of a Brian Blessed, as a pp said.

I was at school when teachers still threw board rubbers. Always added a bit of excitement to the class when that happened and no-one was traumatised.

Original poster
Hakluyt · 04/02/2015 15:24

I'm still considering it. But the latet response was particularly rude and i didn't feel like letting it past.

But since you ask. If I thought that this teacher was shouting because he was having trouble controlling his class, or was under particular stress or at the end of his tether, then I would do what I could to get him some extra support of some kind. I don't think that's the case- I just think it's part of his style. I repeat, behaviour is good at the school. We do not have the classes full of knuckle dragging chair throwers so beloved of the Daily Mail. It's not a style I care for, and I particularly don't think it's appropriate for the lower years. I can imagine some children being scared and put off th subject. One of mine definitely would have been. However, it seems to work for him.

I am worried, however, about him being heard in Reception. It's not the calm, purposeful image we want to present to the world. So I'm still not sure what to do about that.

OP posts:
emkana · 04/02/2015 15:36

It is not up to governors to get involved with individual teachers' performance. If there is a problem with this teacher then SLT need to deal with it - if he can be heard this loudly regularly and it's deemed a problem then I'm sure they will act. If students are affected then parents can raise it with SLT or even Ofsted.

Original poster
Hakluyt · 04/02/2015 15:39

So if I had thought he sounded at the end of his tether, I just say "Not my problem- make sure you have your nervous breakdown in your own time"?

OP posts:
emkana · 04/02/2015 15:40

It's not your role to get involved at this level, yes.

Original poster
Hakluyt · 04/02/2015 15:44

"I wouldn't be in my child's school, nothing worse than those dreadful parents who "volunteer" or shoehorn their way in any which way in order to nose, and then criticise."

Or, put another way, those dreadful parents who, as part of a well coordinated trained team of volunteers, get kids reading ages up by an average of 18 months in two terms.

Nothing like looking at things from different points of view, eh?

OP posts:
emkana · 04/02/2015 15:55

I'm a governor myself and have volunteered in various roles, and I don't share the disrespectful attitude toards those who give up their time. But still, I would hope you would take on board what has been said here about to put things into context. And I would certainly hope that you've had the training to know that neither as a volunteer nor as a governor is it your business to get involved with this teacher's performance in the classroom.

CurlyhairedAssassin · 04/02/2015 18:33

OP, in one of your posts further up you say "it's a tough school."

Your latest post includes "I repeat, behaviour is good at the school. We do not have the classes full of knuckle dragging chair throwers so beloved of the Daily Mail."

Which is it?

Original poster
Hakluyt · 04/02/2015 19:38

It's a school with a very challenging catchment, an extremely high % of children from disadvantqged backgrounds, a disproportionate number of lower ability children and a very high % of children with additional needs. So, a tough school. But it also has good behaviour and very little chair throwing. The two are nor incompatible, you know.

OP posts:
pieceofpurplesky · 04/02/2015 20:45

Hmmm
I teach many children with additional needs of all kinds and some are prone to outbursts - your school must be incredibly lucky if none of your disadvantaged, low ability SEND kids ever misbehave - you need to commission a TV show quickly - to show us all how you manage it with such good behaviour ... Or maybe you are not told which is why it is such a shock to hear a teacher shout ....