Shouting teacher....

[Hakluyt]

I was in DS's school library today, and heard a teacher shouting from three closed doors away. I couldn't hear what he was saying, but it was obviously thqt he was shouting at one particular child, or a couple- it didn't sound, somehow, like a whole class rant (not sure how I know that, now I type it, but for some reason it was obvious). The child I was working with grinned and said "oh, there's Mr X off on one again"
Now I know Mr X, he is incredibly enthusiastic and popular teacher. My ds loves him and learnt loads when he was in his class. I knew he was a bit volatile, but ds found his classes exciting and lively. So maybe the shouting is just part of his style. But surely it shouldn't be?

What strategies would you recommend should be used?

No, I couldn't hear the words.

And no, I can't suggest other strategies because I am not a teacher.

I sometimes shout at my classes. Not because they are naughty but because they have got carried away in group work and are really noisy! I am right on the stairwell and it really echoes if the door is open. But I need to shout to be heard.
I also shout as a tactic if soneone is being particularly horrible - tends to be a loud shout of the name and that is enough (for example today a charming young lad whispered not so quietly to a young girl picking her pen up off the foor that whilst she was down there .... He didn't even get to finish his sentence due to my shouting of his name and was really embarrassed that I had heard and accepted his punishment after the lesson).
These days I don't know many teachers that really shout in pupils faces - but lots that have the odd signature shout. Sometimes it is an effective method and if not done often really serves its purpose.

Agree with the shock tactic thing. very occasionally, I need to raise my voice. Looking back at the last 4 and a half years, I have done it around 3-4 times but should have done it another 3-4 times. It also depends on where you teach and instead of shouting, what else a teacher can do.

A teacher can give detentions, contact parents, refer to head of year or head of department etc and not much else. If some of these don't work then the teacher will have to revert to shouting.

I don't agree with shouting as it damages your voice but it works for some people.

Fgs. I'd suggest that anyone who spent any time with large bunches of teenagers would realise that there are very, very few of them who would be remotely scared by a bit of shouting. Many of them, especially if it is, as the OP says, a rough school, will not give a monkeys. And therein lies the problem. The ones who do care and would be bothered are surely not the ones being shouted at!

Some teachers rarely need to shout. Lucky them. For many it is sometimes either necessary or at least understandable. It's about time people realised that in general, it is the behaviour and upbringing of children which causes disruption in classrooms, not the inadequacy of teachers. Between the unreasonable demands of the government, the poor behaviour of kids and the over-protective or unsupportive attitude of some parents, it's not surprising that teachers are leaving the profession in their thousands. And that's only the ones who are managing to get other jobs. There are many more who carry on but would love to quit.

I'm sure you are a supportive parent, OP, being a governor and all. But really - a teacher shouting is not something to get oneself worked up about. Walk a mile in their shoes perhaps.

Parents often find it difficult to get their own one or two children to behave. How they think teachers can do so with 30 kids and simultaneously deliver the curriculum, and apparently without even raising their voice is beyond me. Teachers are trained. They are not magic.

Sorry to just be cheerleading again but holmes you get it exactly right

"But really - a teacher shouting is not something to get oneself worked up about. Walk a mile in their shoes perhaps."

Worked up? At which point did I appear worked up?

I do have to say I don't like the suggestion that because it is a "rough" school, there will be no sensitive, vulnerable children, or children with additional needs who might find shouting of this volume upsetting- even if it isn't directed at them..........

I think it depends.

If a teacher is screaming and balling all day and the kids are laughing; it means they're useless at discipline.

If it's the occasional well timed bellow, then it can often have the required impact.

I think, in a secondary school, there can be "shouty" teachers. I would agree with the OP that I am not in favour of it, but can understand that teachers are human beings and have different approaches.

Where I absolutely hate it, is in a primary school. We had a teacher in ours, that fortunately, my DD's avoided. She just spoke to children as if they were army recruits and barked out instructions at the top of her voice. There was fear in the classroom. She should have been in the army herself. All the children disliked her and no-one wanted to be in her class. Weak leadership did nothing about it, despite parental complaints. That is a real problem and sensitive children cried. It was not acceptable and if she had taught my children, I would have complained, loudly.

Another thing that's just occurred to me- if I could hear it from where I was, it would have been even more audible in Reception. I really wouldn't want visitors to the school to hear it....

It does remind me of my "Secondary Modern" days Hakluyt where Boys would routinely get told to "Come Here Now " Girls would be shouted at for looking a "Disgrace" then when nobody listened Teachers just shouting "Shut Up" with Fucking thrown in for good measure !.

Yes, Smokepole, it's exactly like that. Not.

Ok Hakluyt - bothered perhaps, rather than worked up. Presumably it bothered you, otherwise you wouldn't have started a thread about it.

So you can honestly say that you wouldn't raise so much as an eyebrow if you were in your child's school and heard a teacher shouting so loudly it could be heard three closed door rooms away? Not just "Be Quiet!" but probably 30 seconds or so? In a school with generally very good behaviour? And there is a strong suggestion that it happens often enough to be routine?

And thanks, emkana. I'm just so sooo weary of the endless teacher bashing. I'd like to see some parents/politicians/random complainers put into a difficult class of 16 year-olds and deal with the apathy, aggression, bad language without ever raising their voice.

And yes, there are more sensitive students in any school. Teachers usually deal calmly and compassionately with them because generally they aren't the ones who need shouting at. If they are very sensitive, to the point that merely shouting in their vicinity upsets them, then I fear that the playground or corridor would be a much more alarming place than the classroom. Kids make much more noise than teachers do.

Teacher bashing?

Yep, that's definitely what I was doing. Reading back, I see that i was demanding to have him instantly dismissed. How foolish of me not to notice that's what I was doing.

Cross posted. No, Hakluyt, I wouldn't. Other posters are right - ideally you shouldn't need to be shouting all the time. It loses its effect and is a sign that you don't have great control of the class. But teachers aren't perfect and it is well nigh impossible to have good control of certain classes.

In my last school I taught a very difficult class. They drove me nuts. I dreaded teaching them. I tried to be as positive and professional as I could. Was consistent and fair in my use of the school's rewards and sanctions policy. Even when being called a bitch to my face. But sometimes I shouted. So shoot me.

What were you doing though? You wanted to know if this was worrying. Plenty of posters have given reasons why it's not. You don't seem (to want to be) convinced. So what outcome are you hoping for?

Essentially, it would be lovely if no teachers ever needed to shout. But sometimes it is effective and other times they are simply driven to it! Get rid of all teachers who shout and you won't have many left! It is like saying that parents should never raise their voice to their children. Sounds lovely in theory, but not many of us could claim that we deal with every single parenting situation with utter calm and serenity.

Anyway, I'm one of the thousands leaving the profession. It was my vocation. Chose it when I was 12. Never wanted to do anything else. Atm I would rather be stacking shelves than teaching in a state secondary.

Shouting/raising your voice does really work if you don't use it very often. I used to have a fantastic reverb corridor outside my room and I once had to take to task a young man who had ruined someone's violin lesson by running through the room and banging on the door. I sent for said lad, and outside the classroom completely turned on the angry voice, complete with varied tones, (love a bit of am-dram) and pupil (fairly notorious) never crossed me again, my class were wetting themselves with laughter as they were listening at the door, they'd realised I was trying not to laugh as I had taken the odd sip of tea if I felt I was going to crack. Controlled is fine, uncontrolled is not also this was at one pupil who I knew wasn't volatile and it was best to send a strong message to. There are pupils I wouldn't have dreamed doing that to for very varied reasons. The vast majority of staff realise this is an effective tool in your classroom management arsenal, but only in certain situations and only with certain students.

Bit over the top there, Quite. There has been no hint whatsoever of which school it could be, no name of teacher, by the OP.

Holmes, how sad that you want to leave. You're just the type of person that education so desperately needs.