The Politics of Grammar Schools

[GiftedPhoenix]

I thought some mumsnet readers would be interested in my latest post, which is about grammar schools, especially their record in admitting high-attaining children from disadvantaged backgrounds.

giftedphoenix.wordpress.com/2014/11/27/the-politics-of-selection-grammar-schools-and-disadvantage/

The selection issue has been bubbling away in the media and this looks set to continue next week, as the Conservatives come under increased pressure from within their own party to include a commitment to new grammar schools in the Tory Election manifesto.

I wanted to explore what progress our remaining 163 grammar schools are making towards 'fair access', so providing a benchmark against which to judge political claims that they might be engines of social mobility. I'm not concerned with research on their historical record in this respect, but with evidence of recent reform.

Oh I believe in choice,but not just choice for myself like you do.

A significant issue is the acceptability of state funded education which is not at least theoretically accessible to anyone in the catchment area. That is one of the problems with selective and faith schools. They actually give more choice to kids who pass the test and families of the right faith.

I believe in the same choice offered to every person in my County and in many other counties we get a form with three lines, we list three schools, we get a choice

which bit do you not understand?

There are loads of state funded places of education not accessible to those without the right size mortgage.

It is not a choice if there are schools that, even if you lived next door your child could not get in.

Yup I just filled in the same form.

Rejected my local comp just like you and chose an alternative(which happens to be a grammar).

What bit don't you understand?

We had a choice of:

a) The nearest.

b) Attempt at a place at a distant shiny super-selective.

LePetit
So can every kid get into the grammar just but putting its name on the form?
Even the ones who got level 3 in their kS2 SATs?

Even if you live next door to the grammar you won't get a place unless you pass the test. It's not "choice"if some of the choices are only available to a few.

Mehitabel6. We can strive for a wonderful education system for all. In reality, we have to play the cards we have at our disposal. Since 1997 there has been a huge increase in tax money invested in the state sector, and this has been the biggest investment in decades. We would have a wonderful education system if politicians did not interfere, and let the teachers get on with it. We also also need motivated children. It should stem from home, and be nurtured at school.

My child is at grammar, and still had to work hard to get in. They are not easy places to get into.

So any child can move themselves from the comp you rejected?

Nope thought not.

The kids without pointy elbowed parents like yourself you sail past every morning certainly can't.That choice I see is ok.

"We also also need motivated children. It should stem from home, and be nurtured at school."

Yes. And the 'other' schools in grammar systems - whether they be called secondary moderns or 'not comprehensive' comprehensives - are deprived of exactly that. Motivated children of motivated parents are siphoned off into one set of schools - which diminishes the education available to everyone else because it weakns, by your own admission, those other schools.

Amnd yes, I camn say this, because I have chioldren who passed for grammars but who I have sent to comps instead - iI have put my mopney where my mouth is. They are doing just brilliantly, thank you.

There is a big difference between having 3 catchment comprehensive schools and putting them in order of preference, and putting down a choice which is not available to the majority of the people in the area.

When I went to school, everyone went to their catchment school. Mine had a massive catchment (rural area) and so the LEA was obliged to provide free transport. The majority of kids were bussed in. It was a true comprehensive. I trained as a teacher in 1997. The school I trained in became a sink school because of parental choice. It became the school no one who cared about their kids wanted them to go to (in local gossip anyway) and therefore was filled with the children of parents who, locally, were deemed not to give a shit. So no one wanted their kids there. It became a self-fulfilling prophesy, and eventually closed down. At the risk of sounding a bit communist, I think we should go back to the way it was when I was at school.

Teacher, but the comp your children go to is extremely high achieving, has a teeny tiny catchment area and is full of middle class affluent children!!

2.8 % free school meals...

Miele - you are absolutely right, it's not all about money.

But it is all about THE PARENTS - their willingness to pursue a grammar place, their confidence, their input.

How can that be right?

it isn't root- children do not get any choice of parents.

And DC have no choice where they live either.

When I grew up it happened to be one of the worst estates in the UK. In the days eviltwins so happily describes this meant l the kids were sent to our local sink comp. No choice. Lovely.

"When I grew up it happened to be one of the worst estates in the UK. In the days eviltwins so happily describes this meant l the kids were sent to our local sink comp. No choice. Lovely."

The problem is that a child from that estate would have a snowball's chance in hell of getting into a grammar school now. It was pretty bloody amazing that you did, from what you have previously posted, but now? Not even with your extraordinary mother...........

Of course they are not easy to get into which is why children from homes with unsupportive parents don't stand a chance of a place! It takes dedicated parents who are employing tutors, have deliberately invested in early private education or have done lots of past papers at home and explained exam techniques. Even those with bright children dare not let them just take their chance in the day- not against the league of 'prepared' children.

When the system first started it was a good way for a child from a disadvantaged background to get an excellent education. But not in 21st century - as Hakluyt says 'not a snowballs ...........'

It won't happen- it is a vote loser. The vast majority would be voting for their children to go to a secondary modern.
It will only ever happen when you get headlines 'Bring back the secondary moderns- they were such wonderful schools and so vastly superior to the comprehensives' .
I get so fed up that they are never ever mentioned and the grammar school supporters are so sure that they are fine for other people's children, but not for their own- who would of course be in the grammar school! If you don't want your own child in a secondary modern then why is it acceptable to expect other people's children to go there? All based on the fact that one day at the ridiculously young age of 10 or 11 yrs their whole future is marked out when at some point their is a cut off point between children of equal ability.

There not their

Le petit ; Yes. ANY child that complies with the distance criteria can apply. There is no test. They see no sats. These are comps They admit solely on the admission code.