The Politics of Grammar Schools

[GiftedPhoenix]

I thought some mumsnet readers would be interested in my latest post, which is about grammar schools, especially their record in admitting high-attaining children from disadvantaged backgrounds.

giftedphoenix.wordpress.com/2014/11/27/the-politics-of-selection-grammar-schools-and-disadvantage/

The selection issue has been bubbling away in the media and this looks set to continue next week, as the Conservatives come under increased pressure from within their own party to include a commitment to new grammar schools in the Tory Election manifesto.

I wanted to explore what progress our remaining 163 grammar schools are making towards 'fair access', so providing a benchmark against which to judge political claims that they might be engines of social mobility. I'm not concerned with research on their historical record in this respect, but with evidence of recent reform.

Miele,

I suppose it depends what criteria you use to judge schools by.

I was once enthusing to another parent about DC's primary school. 'Oh, we thought it was terrible,' came the reply. i asked why. 'Because the children weren't always sitting at their desks in silence to do their work.' I enquired a little further about which year group this was. 'Reception.'

That parent, themselves educated in a particular way, was looking for a very particular type of schooling for their own child - and rejected an extraordinarily good school (results much, much, much better than the one she chose and paid for) because it didn't match their idea of what 'good schools' looked like.

I know that in DC's comp - a honeypot school - there are a couple of pupils whose out of school behaviour has been poor. Even though said pupils are in DS's year, he is utterly unaware of their existence, let alone affected by their behaviour and attitude to learning in school. However, if saw those few pupils in the street, the judgement I might form of the school on that snapshot [unjustifiably, especially since the multi-agency team the school has pulled together to help the pupils involved is really impressive] could be poor - and wrong.

DS refused to consider a local grammar, because he felt unsafe walking down the corridor on an open day.

opalfire King Edward foundation was forced to put it's plans back 12 months, when it will admit an extra class of 25 to Y7 in each of the 5 schools, who will be PP pupils that have passed the entrance examination, but likely at a lower mark than the other 100 gaining a place.

(Sorry- that was in reply to "One school was so bad I made my excuses and left the building as ds felt unsafe". DS entered that grammar school thinking he wanted to attend it - he passed the exam - but by the end of the first corridor he was really scared.)

"I disagree.

There are posters with SEN. There are posters with a poor education. There are posters who do not speak English as their first language.

Their views are valid."

Absolutely. I agree with you. Completely. That is why this is the first time I have ever made a point about someone's grammar or English. Had you seen the poster concerned on other recent threads, you would see what I am saying.

Lepetit
Talkin exercising your choice is the same whether an exam,selective housing or picking one school over another is involved.
It is all parental choice.

So you do not think that those who cannot afford private should have choice?
Why not?
Why are we so undeserving that if we can only afford a cheap house we have to go to the dire school, even when the other school has spaces?

So actually you are just a capitalist snob who wants to use selection to keep the poorest 93% of the population under your heel.

Blimey.

But Miele, you haven't proved that it's not all about money - just that, in your case, it wasn't YOUR money! Your DS still accessed paid-for tutoring to get into a grammar school out of county. So money was involved IF grammar schools are to be "fair" (and as I said upthread, I would happily see the back of them) then no money should be involved. None. Children should sit whatever exam they have to sit with no extra tutoring.

There are also pupils in "grammar schools" with Dyspraxia/Aspergers Etc for the poster who called pupils in them who need help with English. Because a pupil may need help because of SEN ETC it does not make the grammar school the wrong school for them.

DD2 needed "Remedial" help with her English in year 7 Due to Dyspraxia , she is now at/near the top of her grammar at year 11 for English/Maths expecting A* why was she not deserving of a grammar place (seeing as that's the system that operates in Kent).

It's not necessarily about money. It's about parental education, parental involvement, parental confidence, social class.....ironically, one thing it isn't particularly about is the child!

But talkin you're the one trying to curtail choice .

You want to prevent any state school parent having the choice of selective schools, church schools or single sex schools.

But obviously, you can choose to drive past your local school...

Oh for goodness sake Talkin how on earth did you get from me pointing out parental choice to capitalist snob keeping 93% under my heel?

Hysterical.

Soooo you're allowed to select and parents can select via mortgage but a tiny proportion in comparison can't select via an exam.

I would strongly disagree that that's what the PP money is for.

wordfactory
And the choice of which comp to attend is just fine
but EVERY child will have an EQUAL number of schools to choose from
and EVERY parent will have the chance to send their child to ANY state funded school.

There was the idea of "specialist schools" but that died a death

Not all schools will ever be the same : even in a small city the nature of the catchment and SLT and buldings will make schools different
so parents pick the one they like best

but all parents have the same choice
NOT
the sharp elbowed getting the Pupil Premium to be used on 11+ tutoring
OR
the rich using private prep schools to displace poorer kids at high achieving grammars
OR
parents dragging their children to church every Sunday up until the youngest gets their place at the church school

and those of you who want to pay for segregation will still be free to do so

but we taxpayers will no longer pay for segregated education
www.theguardian.com/education/2014/dec/02/faith-schools-not-tackle-problem-separate-lives

You forgot the sharp elbowed richer parents who can buy houses in the right places.

LePetit
Not an issue where there are enough spaces - 500 of us from the poor houses leave our catchment to send kids to the better schools.

I'm nearly a mile from the catchment boundary and over 4 miles from the school.

Most people do not move house very often once they have kids.
I know of one person who has rented a house to get into Thornden but most just go with appeals - its a lot cheaper and kids are only in any one school for a few years.

Oh for goodness sake you just choose what you want to hear.

1. what about the kids left in the shit school without the proactive parents to move them

2. yes parents don't move often,mostly just once or twice ie once if they're lucky to be able to afford a catchment with good primaries and secondaries,twice if they need to go further afield for secondary.

It happens.Its widely reported.Just because in your area your sharp elbows don't need a move doesn't mean it isn't the case elsewhere.It is,up and down the country.

LePetit
As I've said, dozens of times, my local school should be closed. But its a sponsored academy so there is no political will to do the right thing.
If it closed and re opened with a decent SLT and ethos the locals would flood back in (because we'd all save hundreds of pounds a year in bus fares and petrol) and it would then be a decent school again.

The point is that the efforts of Government should be put into bringing up the schools that drive Wordfactory to distraction, not twiddling with extra choice for the rich and sharp elbowed.

Grammar schools are wonderful for middle class parents with reasonably bright children, who can work the system, get an excellent education for free and cut out all those they see as 'undesirable' BUT they are not wonderful for the rest. We need an education system that is wonderful for everyone.

Choice is choice.

You moving your kids going by your argument makes that school worse.

Put your money where your mouth is and move your kids back.

Why does grammar automatically mean an excellent education?

So you do not believe in choice?