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Secondary education

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The Politics of Grammar Schools

705 replies

GiftedPhoenix · 30/11/2014 10:08

I thought some mumsnet readers would be interested in my latest post, which is about grammar schools, especially their record in admitting high-attaining children from disadvantaged backgrounds.

giftedphoenix.wordpress.com/2014/11/27/the-politics-of-selection-grammar-schools-and-disadvantage/

The selection issue has been bubbling away in the media and this looks set to continue next week, as the Conservatives come under increased pressure from within their own party to include a commitment to new grammar schools in the Tory Election manifesto.

I wanted to explore what progress our remaining 163 grammar schools are making towards 'fair access', so providing a benchmark against which to judge political claims that they might be engines of social mobility. I'm not concerned with research on their historical record in this respect, but with evidence of recent reform.

OP posts:
smokepole · 09/12/2014 15:21

I wonder how many watched "confessions of a teacher" on Channel four last night. Here are some classic quotes. "The Boy should be given the stick, it Does wonders". Grammar School is the key to the Professions . A boy at a primary school " If you Don't pass the game's up" My absolute favourite though is a 1960s Headmaster asking a 15/16 year old girl what she wanted to do " I want to be a hairdresser " The headmaster replied you are good with your hands ,Never Mind". An absolute classic piece of film.

I do think some people still perceive modern schools to be the same today as they were 50 years ago.

Hakluyt · 09/12/2014 15:46

"Why would parents pay fees to private schools if their DC were not receiving a better education than their state educated counterparts?"

I suppose it depends whether you think endless repetition of VR and NVR papers constitutes a "better education. If,in some alternative universe, my children were to go private, that is certainly not what I'd be paying for!

farewelltoarms · 09/12/2014 20:03

Please don't worry Another - I certainly never use the word 'fail' in this house. Am exaggerating in response to Portico's rather amazing revelations. Quite frankly if that is what it takes to get into a selective school (private or otherwise) then I want no part of it. It's amazing how all the children I know in rather normal comprehensives seem to manage to compete for university places at all and yet they do and in fact seem to outdo all the ones I know in selectives.

portico · 09/12/2014 21:52

*Miggsie
If you need to do 2 hours work a night to prepare for the 11+ then automatically your child should not be doing it./

DC1 spent much the same time. By the time Y6 state primary sratred, sailed through and attained 6s and 5s. Did no work, and just played on the PS4 for hours on end, everyday.

*OneMoreMum
Surely Portico is (if genuine) just demonstrating why the grammar system is so damaging for children, and not just those who don't get in.

Her poor kids are spending huge amounts of their time desperately trying to prepare for an exam that will shape their whole future, imagine the expectation riding on them in that exam! If they fail it will be crushing, plus it leaves them with the apparently undesirable school as the only fallback unless they can pull some cash out and go private.

Clearly not all children have access to either huge amounts of input from their parents, funding for a private education or indeed above average ability at age 11 so this is not equitable, the only equitable system is a good comprehensive school available to all, where all children are taught according to their ability.

This is not a judgement against individual parents who have no choice but to operate in the system they find themselves in, but an argument about the system as a whole as being wrong.*

I agree but there are no decent comps near me. That being said, a Super-selective Grammar is by far the best.

*anothermakesthree
I really don't want to sound too critical Portico, it does appear you have already stirred up quite strong emotion on this thread.

However, I think it is important to present an alternative and perhaps (as I see it) more rational approach to sitting exams for the super selectives ( my ds is at a super selective in Barnet..bit of a give away).

Notsuretoday is absolutely correct in that the schedule you describe is not something all families embark upon. Some families take the view that a small amount of prep (2 hours a week, spread over the week) will suffice, if the child is naturally bright enough to gain entry to the school. If they don't 'pass', so be it. It was entirely my sons decision to sit for the school, he loved it and knew he wouldn't be able to go to our local school (not of the required faith).

What I have come to realise is that those parents that talk of grammars being 'hot houses', tend to be those parents that tutored their children so heavily, the momentum needs to be continued once the child was at the grammar. Homework that is supposed to take 30 mins, takes that child 60 minutes.

I do actually agree with some of your comments Portico, however I'm afraid you lost me when it became obvious that you are not actually in support of grammar schools, as they were originally intended, but what some have become.

Couldn't give a s### if I have stirred up a hornet's nest; it would be very boring if we all agreed.

I am in favour of grammar schools for what they become. Unashamedly so!!*

*farewelltoarms
Whilst Portico's schedule is completely bonkers, I do disagree with those who say 'no tutoring' is needed when said by parents with children at a private/prep school. If your child is a class of 15, mostly academically above average children then surely that's a form of long-term tutoring in comparison to my children in a class of 30 with some very tricky kids. I often hear prep/private school parents bragging that their children had 'no tutoring' apart from a 'few hours' of past papers with their parents as if they're morally superior when all tutoring in our case is trying to do is to even the playing field a bit. And then there are the prep school parents who are tutoring on top, sometimes at the recommendation of the schools themselves.

My ds is doing some independent school exams in January. I'm now terrified that, despite his hour a week with a general tutor, he's going to fail because he doesn't do 45 mins every morning with a word list and then working from 4 until 9.30 (with some breaks, the slackers) every night. He doesn't even do that total in a week with under a month to go...*

Don't worry. It is easy to prep for an Independnet School that it is for a CEM 11+. So, calm yourself down. Grin

farewelltoarms
Please don't worry Another - I certainly never use the word 'fail' in this house. Am exaggerating in response to Portico's rather amazing revelations. Quite frankly if that is what it takes to get into a selective school (private or otherwise) then I want no part of it. It's amazing how all the children I know in rather normal comprehensives seem to manage to compete for university places at all and yet they do and in fact seem to outdo all the ones I know in selectives.

Which rather amazing revelations?????????????

alittletreat · 11/12/2014 13:34

Not read all the thread as too many of them.

We moved out of the gss area in order to secure a place in a good comp for my dc1. This is the best thing that I have done for my children. During year 5 we visited all the grammar schools they are all single sex anyway and also my dc just hates the atmosphere in any of them. So there's no incentive for my dc to prepare for the 11+ to try for any of the schools. Some of her year6 friends liked the gss so it s okay for them and they worked very hard for 11+. Looking back now 11+ seemed to have dominated many parents and children's primary school life and not always by choice. Some of the children cried throughout the test on the day.
My dc1 is in year 7 now and she already has some level5s and given some level6 targets for end of yr 7. I know she is only very average comparing to mumsneters' dcs. In her class some children are already level 7. These children are not less ambitious than those in gss. However many of them either didn't get a place or didn't take 11+ simply didn't want to. My neighbour next door their dd went to Cambridge and the other one nearby their ds went Oxford. Both of their children went to comps.
I am glad that in our area we don't have to worry about 11+ with my year 4 dc2 so she can continue to enjoy her brownie and dance lessons etc. Otherwise she may have stop her after school enjoyments in order to make time and save money for 11+ preparation. Also we feel that we have a much better community atmosphere in this area. I believe it is partly to do with the fact that most local children go to their local schools together and socialize after school. I myself shall not vote for any political parties that are pro grammar schools. I don't want to have to go through all the stress a gain.

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