The Politics of Grammar Schools

[GiftedPhoenix]

I thought some mumsnet readers would be interested in my latest post, which is about grammar schools, especially their record in admitting high-attaining children from disadvantaged backgrounds.

giftedphoenix.wordpress.com/2014/11/27/the-politics-of-selection-grammar-schools-and-disadvantage/

The selection issue has been bubbling away in the media and this looks set to continue next week, as the Conservatives come under increased pressure from within their own party to include a commitment to new grammar schools in the Tory Election manifesto.

I wanted to explore what progress our remaining 163 grammar schools are making towards 'fair access', so providing a benchmark against which to judge political claims that they might be engines of social mobility. I'm not concerned with research on their historical record in this respect, but with evidence of recent reform.

LePetit
But at least with comps I can put them on the form and be accepted on open and non tutorable criteria

If I was in a grammar area and did not like the feel of the local grammar, could I choose to send my kids to the next one along?

But kids without proactive parents or those that can't afford the extra travel costs can't.

that was not my question.

FWIW kids from round here cycle to the 4 other schools that we all use

please answer mine and blus questions

No you consistently thread after thread ignore the questions and points people put to you so I'll do the same thanks.

Which question do I ignore?
The one about my local school? : nope, given chapter and verse explaining why I think it should shut and then the school DS is at would be my local school.

So, if it was a grammar area, could I pick and choose among the grammars?

The list of questions and points you've ignored from several posters on several threads is pretty lengthy sorry I don't have the inclination to sift through.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander...

bless

My dd's had the choice between four grammar schools, why wouldn't they?

so if you pass the 11+ you then choose which one you want to go to?
what criteria are applied at that stage?

real question : I went private, no grammars anywhere near here

In our area there is one test for all the grammars, but different pass marks. You can choose how many grammars you want your results sent to. Depending on how highly you score you might pass for one, two, three or four grammars, in which case the choice is yours.

No catchment area.

Same as ours Not.

do any of them offer free transport ?

how many miles apart are the schools?

No free transport. Two are in one city, one in the next six miles away, the other 10 miles the other way.

Hmm,
so actually no choice at all for parents unable to afford driving or bus fares
which rather makes a mockery of lower income families even bothering with the 11+ even if their kids are the brightest of all

yup, I'll stick with comps then

Talkin you identified those who were nouveau while at primary?! Are you sure?! And to you old money excludes all those making their fortune since 1814?! That's a very purist definition and leaves out all the old industrial revolution families most of whom are considered ultra posh, both this side of the pond and certainly the other as well.

Molio
It was the nature of the school. And yes, at that school non nouveau was old, old money. castles, landed gentry, Royal links type stuff I qualified because my family has parts of a famous city named after us. Surreal huh.
Especially as now that school is in the uber uber rich - post Glasnost money set

The bus to the singing all dancing comp there is a bun fight into costs the same as the grammar as regards bus(maybe more).They are both out of catchment and county are providing schools in catchment so I understand why.If you are local there will be no cost to going to grammar.

The fact is this whether it be extra cost from mortgage/rent or bus the better comps will be too expensive for many parents and as for the kids without proactive parents at all...... we'll ignore them shall we Talkin.

Wasn't there a bit of a hoo ha recently in Bucks when a free school opened in the south of the county and despite having a GS/Sec Mod system the County decided that it wouldn't pay for those who chose to put the Grammar School down if the free school was nearer? Which makes a mockery of their system.

Grammar school heads highlighted the role of primary schools but ‘this was difficult when primary schools disagreed with assessment based entry processes and selective education in general’.

^^

Therein lies the the main reason why progress will never be made towards 'fair access' to the Grammars. Our Grammar school has recently introduced another criterion for allocation of places in the event of over-subscription - children in receipt of FSM. All fine and good, but for the fact that due to the following reasons, from the OP's linked post, many many children who would qualify won't even get within a mile of the 11+:

Rightly or wrongly, many heads felt disadvantaged learners had relatively lower educational aspirations.

Disadvantaged parents were sometimes perceived to know less about grammar schools and place less value on the benefits they might confer. And, I would add, be less able to afford the resources necessary to ensure their children were not disadvantaged by not having covered the material included in the often curriculum-based exam.

Heads felt disadvantaged parents ‘often associated grammar schools with tradition, middle class values and elitism’. Parents felt their children ‘might struggle interacting with children from more affluent backgrounds’.

Now, if the 11+ exam were to be run as it used to be, and not as the opt in procedure it has become nowadays (i.e. every child takes it, unless they opt out) then this would mean the primary schools being involved once again in administering the exam. Maybe this would encourage the schools to actually take an interest in the outcomes, and equip the children with the tools and knowledge they need to attempt the exam, rather than leaving it to paid tutors or savvy parents.

Perhaps then there would be some hope of reaching the original target market of the Grammars - those bright children who often don't get the chance to opt in to the process as it stands now, because circumstances, or their parents, have effectively opted them out long before the exam takes place.

Bucks doesn't run an opt in system Mrs McRuff, and I don't think that the primary schools are particularly noted for getting the 'original target market - those bright children......' into the Grammars.

And I question whether they were ever the target market. My old school started as an independent school for the daughters of the newly moneyed middle classes in the early 1920s, which went into the state system after the 1944 Education Act. I wouldn't mind betting that a good few schools had similar beginnings. Of course, let one or two bright scholarship pupils in, to pull up otherwise unspectacular standards.

"The fact is this sweeping argument that all comps are fab is utter rubbish."

Of course it is. Who made that argument?

I think that most people are agreed that comprehensives vary enormously from the excellent to the dire, with everything in between (although I get the impression that a few don't believe there are any excellent ones ). I am not sure that many think the same of grammar schools- they are all thought to be good.

The thing that surprises me the most is that any society would put 10yr old children through a test that determines the rest of their lives- no pressure there then! I can see valid reasons for doing it at 14yrs- with some choice for the child themselves.

talkin make up your mind.

Previously, you have said you hoped I'd soon be sacked from my 'important' outreach work . Now you say it's pointless .

The reality is that in recent times, the cultural capital of attending certain universities has grown immeasurably. A good degree from the top few will open doors wherever you went to school and no matter how much money, your parents have or don't have.

mehitable I think most comprehensives do a perfectly good job at their main aim; to educate the majority of DC.

Where they struggle is with the outliers. Those at the ends of the bell curve.

I spend a lot of time visiting schools as part of the widening access scheme for Oxbridge and am consistently frustrated by the lack of appropriate provision for the most academically able DC.