Uni advice please....

[Besta]

Dd1 has viewed several universities to study History and has decided on one that she wants to make her firm choice.
She is predicted AAA and her teachers are saying she might even exceed that. The university she wants to go to is an ex poly with a points offer. She likes the feel of it, the course content (we attended the open day with her and it did feel fab and the tutors were outstanding and "world renowned"/leaders in their research area)
Having not been university educated, how is this viewed with regard to employability in the future? Or viewed generally? Is she making a mistake not going to a RG uni, especially as this is a course that is available at all RG unis.

I despair at the snobbery but understand that such is life as we know it.

Fwiw, I did my first degree in a university that's now considered top 20 in the world... And my masters at a 1960s Uni and my phd at a RG (except when I did it, had no clue about these labels...). I am now an academic at a 1960s place which is considered top 20 in the country. So...

I think, when making these decisions you/your family needs to make the choices based on what's important for you all. Some people it's geography (need to stay locally), others it's prestige/alma mater.. Etc.

If your child is dead set on location being of importance then you need to find the universities that are within that locale. 50miles ok? 25? 100?

Then narrow down in terms of ranking, usps (so what's so good about their course? Exchange programme? Plenty of Uni have exchanges. Most have the Erasmus ones. Some have Asian. Others have us...). Employability - they may say 95% employment after 6 months. Chances are they have combined that with 'pursuing further education...' Look at the faculty. Look at how many have PhDs. Research active?

Some programmes it's better to have faculty who have industry experience (eg film or drama?). Others it's better to have more research prowess.

And yes I would second whoever said it's better to be a big fish in a small pond than a tiny fish in a big pond. Particularly for those who aren't as confident. I would always encourage students to take a year out too, if they don't really know what to do. That way they will be surer. Really.

And yes there are ex-polys and there are ex-polys. There's places like Brookes and Hallam which are pretty well regarded. And then there are others.

If she's predicted AAA and possibly more I think she should be encouraged to find a history department that is more aspirational but also able to provide her with those experiences that she wants (year abroad, etcetera).

Brookes was last for workload/hours in the table I showed in history/philosophy.

Complete University Guide ranking of UK history departments.
Durham is top.
Newcastle 18th, up from 27th.
Northumbria is 58th, up from 67th.

I know someone reading history in Aberystwyth, just a few notches below Northumbria, and he didn't get nearly the grades your DD is predicted to get.

All the top rated history departments from the CUG will be able to provide excellent study abroad opportunities.

If she is looking to go to a uni where her expected grades are way higher than would usually be expected on the course I would look very carefully at how much of the assessed work is group projects.

She has probably seen this general course description at Durham.

Compare and contrast Northumbria with Durham.

If I were an employer who knew nothing about either university, I would choose graduates from Durham based on these pages alone.

Northumbria:
'You will engage with a range of exciting and challenging topics including the development of British and European society, political and social activism, and numerous modules focusing on specific historical events such as the Irish Revolution and the Vietnam War. You will be taught by research-active academics who will encourage you to think critically about the past while also engaging actively with the world around you.'

As a history graduate who is Irish, I could pick a lot of very large holes in the concept of an Irish 'Revolution', but heyho..

'You will engage with a range of exciting and challenging topics including the development of British and European society, political and social activism...'
Exciting and challenging is your clue that this is not a first rate history department.

'...engaging actively with the world around you' is meaningless verbiage.

Newcastle:
'This degree will open your mind to the past, present and future, with topics that stretch from the birth of civilisation right up to the present day.' Verbiage..

Exchange programmes are in Europe only, and I see no final year dissertation requirement. I may have just missed it (lost my specs yesterday).

There is a course on the [alleged] Irish Revolution here too, I notice.

It really is a lot of money to spend, and it's insane for a form tutor to say it doesn't matter where the money is spent.

I don't agree that it is snobbery either.

It's not necessarily a choice of small fish/big pond or big fish/small pond. You could end up the only fish that appears to be engaging with life in a pond full of comatose fish. That's no fun at all.

It is insane to pretend that there is no difference between northumbria and durham. Northumbria wouldn't dream of saying that they expected first year students to read for and lead seminars on their webpage. They'd rather offer them a free hoodie to accept a place (they actually do that).

'You could end up the only fish that appears to be engaging with life in a pond full of comatose fish'

^^ This

Or in a setup where teaching is in groups of 25 - 30, which is small enough to pretend you are going to have a discussion, but too large to actually have one, and too large for anyone not to be able to hide from taking part. And in fact literally the only question that gets asked except by me for two years is 'Will this be in the exam?'

"And in fact literally the only question that gets asked for two years is 'Will this be in the exam?'"
That used to drive DH mad when he went from lecturing in an RG uni to lecturing in an ex poly.

This thread illustrates why students who get tip top advice from their schools and their parents have high expectations will get into the better universities. The people who believe just down gone road is best, do not look at league tables or believe a teacher who says all degrees are equal are putting themselves at a distinct disadvantage. What good employer does not know the difference between Durham and Northumbria? Of course they do. Schools recruiting teachers definitely do.

One of the interesting issues picked up on earlier was the style of learning at a top university instead of the more spoon fed style at the lesser universities. The bright inquiring minds that can do the research, write the best essays and are motivated self-starters tend to study History at the best universities as identified in the league tables.

I may be wrong, but is the USA election in 2016? Does a year abroad not add a year to a normal 3 year degree, and is it not done in year 3 of 4? Would the OPs DD not be heading to the USA in 2017/18? After the election?

dd knows teo girls who have chosen to go to sussex through choice non russell group despite being AAA students

Mumslife - what's odd about that? DS has it as one of his choices and their typical offer for his subject is AAB.

millymollymamma depends if it is an exchange or not. Exchanges are typically year 2 and like for like study.

Sussex is a fine university especially for the humanities as I understand it, which means its research funding level is lower, meaning it is not part of the Russell Group (willing to be corrected). That will have certain implications but certainly doesn't mean anyone should be less than delighted to be studying History there.

I think it's interesting that there's a lot of obsession of RG and post 92... What about the 1960s bunch? The Sussex, Kent, Essex, Surrey type universities which are all doing very well... Just not right at the very top, but not at all at the bottom.

These do well on NSS, employability, teaching scores and research as well.

Those were 94 group institutions, not big enough to join RG so they set up the 94 group as a lobby group for smaller research intensive universities.

Unfortunately the RG's publicity machine was much better and the 94 group disbanded last year when four members jumped ship to join RG (giving the group millions to do so).

Those are still good quality well thought of universities though.