Poorer than peers

[londonsburning]

I know there are a lot of threads on MN about whether an ordinary, 'struggling' middle class family will 'fit' at a fee paying school with wealthier families and everyone is always v reassuring.

I wanted to start one though for those of us where, subtly, chronically, every day, the 'difference' between peers starts to wear you down - as in our case? How do people then cope with the resultant feelings of envy/comparison - not overt and huge - but nonetheless ever present?

In my case, I'm a single mum, solely reliant on own income, working all hours to keep DCs at a school they love but where we are somewhat in the minority. WE get a tiny bursary but it's a drop in the ocean compared with the school fees. The other families we mix with are 2 parent - or have the ex contributing to fees or grandparents helping out too.

Almost all the mums are SAHMS or at most work p/t and have the luxury of time - time to care for their DCs needs better than I can - eg by funding extracurricular activities, extra tuition if DC struggles with any subject, time to care for themselves and their homes - by keeping fit at the gym/running, cleaning their houses or having enough money to spend to pay a housekeeper/cleaner.

Most families have at least one foreign hol a yr - whereas we've never even been abroad at all. Most have time to spend helping out with homework and managing the difficult after-school hours by being there, by being less stressed. I'm working in the evenings as well as during the days.

People often say, "I don't know how you do it," but then launch into their latest new kitchen developments or the exhaustion of spending a day in town shopping for their DCs new skiing outfit for the latest expensive school trip. My DCs have had to quietly drop out of most school clubs/activities as I just can't afford the extra costs or fund any of the exciting school trips.

They've learned not to say that they've never been on a 'plane or abroad. They don't mention that most of their summer was spent home alone with little to do whilst I was working, whilst their friends compare exotic trips and their latest acquired gadgets. None of us even has a basic smartphone, whilst their peers have endless latest iphones and tablets and all the up to date technology.

Of course I remind them and myself how incredibly privileged they/we are that they can go to the school they love and how, by conparison with so so many other people, we would be considered 'well off'. When the daily lives experience is being with people infinitely wealthier in time and in money - how can I stop feeling eroded by comparative difference between what I can provide for my family and what their friends have?

Personally I don't think there is much you can do about it. Are you sure the school is vastly superior to the local state school? I would move them if it bothers you that much.

My children have been friends with some extremely wealthy children at private and state school whose parents have been incredibly generous in taking them out, knowing we can't reciprocate.

I do mix with some incredibly wealthy people due to my DC's activities and they do not understand what it is to have little disposable income. Their ignorance does infuriate me tbh.

I knew a girl with a large bursary at one of the London day schools which has the super rich as customers and she suffered terribly.

If I was struggling that much, I would look at taking my children out of private school.

I don't think it matters that you can't keep up with the Jones from the Joneses point of view. They don't care. And if you can manage your children's disappointment from not going on holiday for example, then that isn't a problem.

But would you not prefer to look back on your children's childhoods having had lots of fun affording holidays, treats therefore giving lots of family memories and bonds. And taking this huge financial pressure off your shoulders.

Rather than slogging your guts out for something that they could get elsewhere (an education).

In your position, I'd move to a state school if at all possible, because a life spent constantly working and not seeing your DC in the evenings or school holidays seems pretty grim. I don't think that extra curricular classes and foreign holidays are essentials, but there has to be a bit of fun and enjoyment in life, and from your post, there doesn't seem to be.

Have you asked your DD if she'd prefer a state school and spending more time with you?

DCs - sorry.

Crazy. I watch my sister doing this and I just don't get it. Her kids are not receiving a significantly better education than mine and she simply cannot afford (in time or money) the enrichment activities that I am able to. I'm a working mum too, we're not rich and my kids are not spoilt, but if I sent them to private school, there is so much that they wouldn't have: holidays, days out, activities, music lessons, etc etc. it wouldn't be worth it for me.

They've been at this school from the start and as one of them said to me the other day, when I was fretting about school fees and wondering if I should look at other options, "But mum, my school is my Life! It's part of who I am. Everyone I know goes there. I love it". This is the kind of reaction they give if I've ever voiced doubts about finances.

One DC has needs that can be best catered for in this particular environment and local state schools can't offer anything like the facilities and teaching and class size that DCs have. It's an academically selective school and although there are some good state schools around, DCs school gets massively, massively better results (near top of league tables).

That's really why I'm pulling out all the stops to keep them where they are - because they love it and because they'll more likely end up achieving their potential in this environment than elsewhere. It's been my priority to keep them there, for stability, happiness and their futures too. I know you can always say that any good state school will achieve similar but given some specific 'needs' of one of my DCs, they'd have been lost in the state system.

But, as you can see from my OP, the cost to me/us can be high. It may be that the cost is higher for me than for DCs, as I'm the one noticing most how comparatively poor we are. DCs are aware of it but don't dwell on it most of the time, except in passing, when they might mention a friend now has the latest gadget or another friend is off on some fantastic school expedition abroad - mention in a wistful but non-complaining way.

For those of you who have a similar situation but really want to keep your DCs at the school they love and are 'just' getting by - how do you manage when yet another mum friend moans about the lengthy task of purchasing a second home abroad or needing to sack the housekeeper as they didn't iron the clothes properly or something like that - and you yourself are desperately trying to get another term's wear out of an outgrown blazer or find the time to dust the house yourself more than once a year?

london judging by what your kids are saying then it sounds like you are doing everything right.

Just a view from the other side: this stuff happens in state school too, though admittedly only in certain areas. In my dc's school it seems everyone has iPhones and Barbour jackets. Mine do not. There's also a lot of ponies, holiday homes, posh cars, cleaners etc. I do not!

I think it comes down to confidence in knowing you're a good mum.

I don't know the answer but can I just say your kids sound lovely so you are clearly doing something right :).

I went to a private school on a sort of scholarship because I was bright but my parents were skint. I did used to be a bit embarrassed when my Dad picked me up in his builder's van and all my friends' doctor/lawyer parents turned up in their BMWs, but in general it didn't really bother me and I was never picked on for it. So maybe your kids don't mind as much as you do?

That said I can see why you'd find it hard. Different situation but we're at the poorer end of our group of friends and DD has never been abroad either. It's hard not to feel that you're letting your kids down but there are many ways of being a good parent that don't involve money and you obviously know that.

Our dd passed an exam for the local very expensive prep school last year and we knew she wouldn't be able to go unless we got a substantial bursary. When it came to it, the bursary we were offered was just jot enough so sadly, we had to turn it down

For a short while, we were all quite upset - dd not so much funnily, but I was ! However, a year down the line we 're really quite relieved we didn't try to manage or get a bigger bursary to be honest. Her primary school is very good and looking at the outgoings people have for that particular school we really would have struggled and would have been feeling like you are I guess.

On the other hand, my nephew went to the same school a long time ago on an assisted places grant. They lived in a tiny council house and had no money at all, while he was mixing with consultants sons and lawyers offspring. It really never bothered him that they were poorer and he has grown up a lovely well rounded man who looks back on his schooldays with real affection.

What saddens me about your situation is that you are working so hard though . I hope things work out - if the children are happy that is great but you need to be too.

How much longer do they have left at this school?

I am a single working parent with a DS at a independent secondary school (he started there at the prep school). I do get some financial assistance from the school but like the OP work long hours to fund it. My ds was at a state school until he was 9 and there really is no comparison. I try to ignore as much as I can the oner parents talking bout their renovations and holiday homes but it is v hard.

If it helps I really don't think these mothers are saying things to make you feel this way. They are just talking about their lives, I find it really hard to have discussions with my friends due to the sheer difference in our life styles.

When you live a certain life that's your normal, things that seem really luxurious or abnormal become their reality its just how life is. Kind of like when you buy a really nice car? You drive it and it becomes just a car it's not until you have to drive something not so great while yours is being repaired that you remember how fortunate you are.

Then again you forget after a while, it's the same principle. It's hard to stay "grounded" when everyone around you is the same.

Hmm... I acknowledge the fact that you could get rid of your "problem" by simply pulling them out of the school - but of course that would bring a whole new crop of worry and (probably) resentment.

I wonder if you've fallen into a habit of focusing on what other parents have rather than what their lives might actually be like? The woman boring you about kitchen developments might be keeping very quiet about her husband's continuous affairs perhaps - and no amount of skiing trips can immunize people against illness, addiction, despair... Do you really know them all so well that you can be sure their lives are better than yours?

Secondly, if your DCs are on bursaries then that means they are hugely valuable to their school surely? It's probable that several of the very wealthy children might not have been offered a place if they had been in your financial position. At the prep school I know best the true hierarchy centres on which children are getting into the most highly regarded senior schools. Which results in all the Hermes bedangled, ski-tanned, Tuscany renovating Mummies swarming around the "poor" single parent whose child is mysteriously heading the class and receiving all the offers. Truth.

If it's too hard it isn't worth it - but honestly, honestly other parents will quietly have found reasons to envy you too.

"One DC has needs that can be best catered for in this particular environment and local state schools can't offer anything like the facilities and teaching and class size that DCs have. It's an academically selective school and although there are some good state schools around, DCs school gets massively, massively better results (near top of league tables)."

There are loads of fantastic state schools that are doing an excellent job of educating our children; they sit at the top of league tables (if this is your primary concern) and the children are well rounded, empathetic individuals.

If you actually believe what you say in your post about state schools inability to meet your needs, then you will have to just suck it up and stop whining.

If you think the sacrifices are worth it then you need to stop comparing yourself with others.

Oh and perhaps find some different 'mum friends'. My sister's 3 children all went to selective independent schools. She met there (and still has) a great group of friends with varying degrees of disposable income (from none to lots). They are supportive and generous of spirit, not at all like the parents you describe.

I'm a single parent and I work more than full time to keep ds at his school. I work from home though so I'm always around and I do my best to juggle the shifts to manage as many drop offs/pick ups as I can. It's hard but I don't feel any resentment towards those who have things a little easier (I'm too busy working to think about it to be honest). It's worth it IMO, I'm giving him the opportunity to go into whichever career he wants to so I don't regret it for one minute.

Kids are, by nature, a bit self centred and your DDs comments about her private school being so important to her may come back to haunt her when she is old enough to realise the effort and stress that you had to put in to keep her at the school. I wouldn't have wanted my parents to suffer so much for me.

My kids have been to schools where there are super rich parents and parents who seem to be skint (maybe the grandparents are paying for the school places? ) I can't say that I have witnessed any issues with the kids (our family would fall into the 'comfortable' group) My DCs didn't differentiate between rich and less rich friends.

At times we've really struggled but at no time have we not been able to afford standard extras e.g. Music lessons, UK residential trips even a tutor although you shouldn't be needing one routinely. I'm not working every hour that God sent I work funny hours but am here for my children, the school wouldn't expect me not to be and our bursary enables me to do this.
OP you have to decide whether or not it's worth the money! We pay because we want the whole package; academic excellence and lots of opportunities that are not available if we didn't.
If you cant afford the extra and have good state schools I'm not sure Id carry on crippling myself if I was you.

What seems key here, is that the DC live their school, and don't seem to mind losing out materialistically.

I moved DD1 from a 7 to 18 selective private to state school at 11. Although she was unhappy in her last year at private, and she said she wanted to leave, there was still a small amount of resentment.

What year are your DCs in?

If they'd gone to the local state primary and secondary they'd probably still regard school as their life - I mean school IS a child's life isn't it - they spend so much time there, with friends, having fun, moaning together about the boring biology lesson they just had. I doubt it's the ACTUAL school that makes them feel that - any school would!

And of course a selective private school is going to get better academic results - it's selective, how could it fail to do so. But it's likely that the local state school will also have a few kids who leave with straight As and As too. Would a private school have got those kids better results? Probably not. If your kids are that able, they too could leave with As and As.

I don't know what needs one of your dc's has, but have you got yourself into the mindset that no other school will do, have you really looked elsewhere, realistically and without blinkers and considered whether these needs could be met elsewhere?

I'll be honest - I'd feel I'd failed if I couldn't provide my kids with any out of school enrichment, time together as a family, support for homework, chatting about their days, holidays to plan together and look forward to.

School IS their life, but home should be too.

I know for sure that none of the mums is saying anything on purpose and totally get that what's normal for you becomes 'normal' and you don't tend to think beyond your own lifestyle until perhaps you lose it. I don't resent the other parents.

I think it's more that I feel guilty and inadequate a lot of the time that I'm not doing even more for my DCs - like providing a clean, nicely decorated home and new clothes and holidays and gadgets etc. I'm endlessly juggling work, DCs and the absolutely bare minimum of housework and always surrounded by mess and dirt.

At present, DCs could do with more time from me just to talk and to help with homework and even provide some extra tuition - but it's beyond what I've got to give.

They're on means tested bursaries BTW, not because they're the cleverest and there are loads of children at the school who are more intelligent than they are. You can't buy your way into this school and it's v competitive to get in but also v expensive too!

I appreciate that being rich doesn't always make you happy. It's just sometimes that I really really wish I had time and money for things in life other than work - more time for the DCs, more time for keeping the house at a basic level of tidiness and mess free. We can't really ever have anyone round, as I'm always working or the house is just too disgustingly messy and dirty. Lack of time and the state of the house means that DCs have ended up with far fewer friends than many peers either, as I couldn't coordinate the get-together's when they were younger nor now provide the kinds of activities that DCs their age enjoy - whether in the home or outside the home.

I haven't any time at all to make new friends, as I barely socialise myself, except when in relation to a school thing. So I'm always left with a highly selective peer group myself - rather than a wider circle of people who have a lot less than I do or the same as I do.

Sometimes, I fanstasise about a life where I don't have to wake at 4.30am to do work and that after school drop off, I can come home and tidy the house and let in the cleaner, go to the gym and then meet a friend for lunch, get up to date with household admin and then, in a relaxed and happy state, pick up DCs from school, ready to hear their news or woes of the day.

I wonder what it's like to be a SAHM with a rich partner and not worry every single day about work and finances, to have an evening and weekend without more work - but time to relax. I'm mixing with other mums who take all that for granted and just couldn't understand the life of a single working parent with no family back-up or support. I guess it just feels a little unreal at times if I'm chatting with a school mum about her outfit and aware that I'm wearing clothes that I bought over 20 years ago, that are frayed and held up with safety pins!

Actually, I do sometimes laugh to myself at how bizarre it feels and keeping a sense of humour helps. My top priority is to keep the DCs at the school they love as they're happy there. It's just getting through the next few years trying to fund this and not feeling too guilty that I can't give the DCs more of me, my time and a lifestyle commensurate with their current peers.

I've deleted about three posts because it is difficult to say what I'm trying to say.

We have put/are putting three DC through private schools. At times money was really tight and we had to forego holidays etc. But this was for several years at a time, and things always improved so we then could do all those extra things such as new cars, holidays, gadgets etc. We always prioritised school fees and cut back everywhere else in lean times.

I suppose with your situation, it is essential you constantly focus on the bigger picture. And your DC's need to as well, as you will permanently be in a lean time. They know money is tight; as a family unit school fees are your 'luxury'. Your family needs to accept that school fees matter to you all more than anything else, and that is at the expense of other things. And that has to be a permanent thought.

No one else will care you are a poorer family.

You should feel incredibly proud to be able to do this for them.

I do agree that if you're not able to live, then maybe it's time for a rethink Ds has music lessons, he knows he can go on trips abroad but he chooses not to (he says he'll only go if I go). If you're at the point where you're thinking 'is it worth it', then you're probably at the point where you need to rethink the school.

Thanks Bowlersarm. I suppose I do feel proud of DCs being at this school and that I've provided for them singlehandedly. I'm pretty sure they'd rate staying on at the school as their top priority too.

If I could choose again which way to go, I'd still have chosen this school for them and still do everything I could to ensure they can stay there. One is in Yr9 and the other Yr 8. One has difficulties socialising and is a bit quirky. The other has difficulties with organisation. The school has been really helpful to both for these issues and there are many similar children to them there, in terms of eccentricity - which often goes with a certain level of ability.

I just have to cope a bit better with things like mistaking the housekeeper for one of the relatives, when I've turned up at a school Mum's house with one DC (hugely embarrassing but funny too!); listening sympathetically to another who finds the commute from country pile to city home so stressful on Sunday nights - things like that.

Your situation sounds very much like mine, though I only have one ds.
As far as the coffee club mums go I juat smile and wave, I really don't need to make friendships with people who choose to judge me because I don't own a car for example.
For me, its about balance, looking at what my ds has gained against what I haven't been able to do. If the 'haven't' side were to completely outweigh the 'gain' side then I would have to think again. Also if one of your dc has specific needs, then you may find you are paying more in more ways than one, as private schools do have a habit of charging for every tiny little thing that they class as an 'extra'
Being happy at school is very important, but so is enjoying life and who you are.

I think you are paying a massive price for this. Obviously the school will be high up the league tables if it is highly selective. I think time as a family and a clean, organised home you can bring your friends to, are basics to be honest. You can guarantee that wherever your kids go to Uni, there will be plenty of kids from the state system there, who's parents haven't had to sacrifice like you to get them where they are.