Poorer than peers

[londonsburning]

I know there are a lot of threads on MN about whether an ordinary, 'struggling' middle class family will 'fit' at a fee paying school with wealthier families and everyone is always v reassuring.

I wanted to start one though for those of us where, subtly, chronically, every day, the 'difference' between peers starts to wear you down - as in our case? How do people then cope with the resultant feelings of envy/comparison - not overt and huge - but nonetheless ever present?

In my case, I'm a single mum, solely reliant on own income, working all hours to keep DCs at a school they love but where we are somewhat in the minority. WE get a tiny bursary but it's a drop in the ocean compared with the school fees. The other families we mix with are 2 parent - or have the ex contributing to fees or grandparents helping out too.

Almost all the mums are SAHMS or at most work p/t and have the luxury of time - time to care for their DCs needs better than I can - eg by funding extracurricular activities, extra tuition if DC struggles with any subject, time to care for themselves and their homes - by keeping fit at the gym/running, cleaning their houses or having enough money to spend to pay a housekeeper/cleaner.

Most families have at least one foreign hol a yr - whereas we've never even been abroad at all. Most have time to spend helping out with homework and managing the difficult after-school hours by being there, by being less stressed. I'm working in the evenings as well as during the days.

People often say, "I don't know how you do it," but then launch into their latest new kitchen developments or the exhaustion of spending a day in town shopping for their DCs new skiing outfit for the latest expensive school trip. My DCs have had to quietly drop out of most school clubs/activities as I just can't afford the extra costs or fund any of the exciting school trips.

They've learned not to say that they've never been on a 'plane or abroad. They don't mention that most of their summer was spent home alone with little to do whilst I was working, whilst their friends compare exotic trips and their latest acquired gadgets. None of us even has a basic smartphone, whilst their peers have endless latest iphones and tablets and all the up to date technology.

Of course I remind them and myself how incredibly privileged they/we are that they can go to the school they love and how, by conparison with so so many other people, we would be considered 'well off'. When the daily lives experience is being with people infinitely wealthier in time and in money - how can I stop feeling eroded by comparative difference between what I can provide for my family and what their friends have?

As for results I'm seriously unconvinced, I think DDs bright private school DFs would have got the same GCSEs and (given the way one handles stress) better As levels at the local very good comp.

Their single sex school is very pretty, very protected, has good facilities, but not for all their hobbies. However, long term I'm absolutely certain they'd be better off with savings for university.

It's tough, but you and your children just have to accept that you are different. It's never easy to be in the minority group, but there is nothing wrong with you.
It would be nice to be rich, but you're not. You're doing the best you can, giving your children a fantastic education. Is that not good enough?
Your children seem to cope with it just fine.

OP, Yr8 and Yr9 DC should be perfectly able to do chores and help around the house - vacuuming, throwing stuff away, dusting, etc. Even painting and stuff.

I can afford a cleaner but I choose not to have one because I failed to find one that can do stuff the way I like it. When I do a deep clean, my DD is perfectly capable of helping out and she is younger then you DCs. I mean, how dirty and messy can the house be that you feel you can't have people over? This sounds pretty extreme to me.

With regards to possessions and gadgets, unless you are poor to the extent the family was in "The rector's wife" in Trollope where kids had to only wear hand me downs and only bought new staff from market stalls in street markets, you are not really poor. Smartphones, tablets, expensive cars are a choice and a lot of people who can afford it choose not to buy these things.

With regards to extras, they don't have to be expensive - I think it's only music lessons that you have to pay for, no? At our private school, all clubs are free, e.g. all sports practices, debating, art, computing, you name it.

Also, subs to sports clubs are £100-200 per year - is it really that tight?

What I am trying to say is aren't you overthinking a bit in terms of material aspects?

Not having time to spend time with your DC and feeling exhausted from working all the time is a different issue and much more important than all of the above. How much do DC help you around the house? Can they (and do they) make their own breakfast and snacks? Do they do laundry? May be that's something you could work on, but I wouldn't get hung up on material stuff.

You sound like both you and your DC are sacrificing a huge amount for them to go to this school. Are you sure it's worth it? I obviously don't know exactly what their additional needs are, and how hard it would be for those to be met elsewhere but, as others have said, most children would consider their school a hugely important part of their lives, and selective schools are bound to get good results.

Are there other local options you can look at for post 16 provision? You can make it clear to both kids that after GCSEs they will be leaving. At least you'll have a shorter end game in sight and only 3 more years or so paying both sets of fees. Lots of kids change schools or go to FE colleges at this stage anyway.

OP,
You are a hero. Your DC's will inherit your work ethic and do well in life because they saw what you did for them. I think you have your priorities right. My DCs go to' top of the tables' schools and it's the children of parents like you who they choose for friends.

OP I've read your comments carefully, when I was at school I used to have two friends whose houses were absolutely filthy, I'd never seen anything like it and unbelievably untidy neither parents did any house work both their mothers worked in something exciting, one was an artist I think, they lived in Belgravia and were absolutely loaded, we all loved going there, the atmosphere was fantastic, the very hippy parents were great, so informal, no petty rules. Such a contrast from our wealthy SAHM mothers with their middle class values! I've slightly modelled myself on them minus the house in Belgravia. I'm no great shakes at housework no child has ever refused to come here because of it, or parent declined lunch. It's all about you as a person not how much dust is on your bookcases which by the way if you don't ever touch forms an even coating that no one notices.
I don't think the life as a SAHM mum is all that great, your world view becomes narrow, you can become completely child/self focused which is not healthy and as for coffee mornings (wince), I'm not sure your missing anything there.
But I do think not being there for you children is sad, years ago I met a man who told me he was always at work (he ran a very successful business) one day his 13 yr old daughter was killed in a car accident and he realised he hardly knew her, and all that money he had couldn't put the clocks back and he always regrets it. As he said our children are only children for such a short time, we should be there for them as much a we can because we don't know what's round the corner.

I grew up in a similar way to this - it wasn't about the school for my mum, it was about an area - though living in this area did give us access to a top state school, so I guess there was an element of that. But it was far more about us staying in this area we loved and where all our friends lived, even though it meant we had to rent expensively, our house was not as nice as most other kids, and mum had to work what were, now I look back on it, quite crazy hours to fund it all. We were on our own at home a LOT, basically.

There were a few times that it was hard, and I was aware that we weren't as well off as most, but I wouldn't trade it for the world - friends I made growing up are still my friends now, and the area will always, always be home to me. I know it would've made life so much easier for mum if we'd moved somewhere cheaper, but I'm eternally grateful to her for making it possible to stay there.

What's I didn't realise at the time, and have since found out, was that quite a few families were in the same position as us, but being a kid you just don't really notice - friends that I thought were super wealthy turned out to have been getting by in a similar way to us. Also, this is maybe a bit depressing, but as time went on quite a few of my friends parents divorced, and/or financial circumstances changed, so by the time I left school I was far closer to 'average' financially than I was to begin with!

At the time there were definitely times I resented not having the fancy stuff, but I knew we couldn't afford it and it definitely hasn't affected my life in the long term! In fact, I think it was good to be aware of not being able to afford things, as where we lived it would've been very easy to end up with very little sense of how the real world works - I genuinely think the struggle was a positive influence on me.

Mum was very honest with us about her financial limits - we were always aware that we'd made a choice as a family that would mean things would be tight. As a result, we were expected to help out around the house more than some other kids, and I was also working from fairly young, and expected to cover quite a few of my own costs. I think all this, too, was a positive thing for me, and gave me a lot of skills for adult life that I later saw friends who'd had an easier ride really struggle to acquire when they hit uni and beyond. Things like tutors - we could never have afforded it, but DB and I both, as a result, learned good independent study habits, and did very well at school and university.

Mum doesn't regret it, especially now that we're all grown and can see and appreciate what she did for us - but there must've been some very thankless years in there, and she also didn't have much of a social life, or that great a time, to be honest. It was a pretty close thing, and I think had the price been a little higher or things a little different we'd have moved, and doubtless would still have had a perfectly happy childhood! Only you can know if it's a step too far, and I don't think you should be afraid of making that call if you feel you need to.

Agree with vjg-look at other options for sixth form. Ds1 left his (private) school at 16-as did most of his friends. Ds2 in a different private school is staying on for A levels, but about 40% of his year have left, and a lot have come in. There is huge movement between schools for 6th form. (In this area anyway)

To me, there are two issues; not being able to afford holidays, music lessons and tutors is one thing. But for your children to have fewer friends because you're working too hard to have a tidy house (although I'm sure their friends wouldn't bother) or at work and not in, for them to need you to help with homework and you're at work, for them to spend the summer in the house because you were at work.... And for YOU to not have many friends, and to be wearing clothes held together by safety pins - those would make it an untenable situation for me.

But given that you've said you're not willing to take them out of school, the only ways of mitigating the situation is to ask for a higher bursery, ask for a pay rise (it's not clear whether you have only one job, or more) or move to a cheaper house.

Is any private school worth this?

I'm not quite sure what you expect people to say.

You have made your choice, just get on with it. You think this half life you're leading is preferable to inflicting state education on your children. Well then I really cannot see what your complaint is.

Perhaps if time is so tight it would be better spent with your children in the real world, rather than whining in the virtual.

OP, are your DC taking on a reasonable share of the housework? It is perfectly reasonable for you to expect them to make a meaningful contribution to the running of the house. Who does the washing up/loads and sets off the dishwasher? Who loads/unloads the washing machine? Who does the food shopping? Who gets the tea? If the answer to all these questions is that you do it all or nearly all the time, then I think you really need to be asking your children to do more, and I think it would actually be in their own best interests, as you would be happier.

As others have said, I think you should seriously consider moving your children when they get to sixth form. The start of sixth form is probably a relatively easy time to make new friends, and the very good education they will have received up to that point will have set them up to succeed at sixth form. That will mean you just have three more years to get through and then life will be much easier, as the need to only find one set of school fees rather than two will obviously make a huge difference to your disposable income.

My DCs don't go to independent schools (though I have worked in one) so I have nothing to say on that point.

However...

Can you not find a better paying job? Wait, I know that sounds really crass and easier said than done and obviously I don't know what sector you work in...buuuut you seem to work like a dog and presumably already have a high salary to be able to cover 2 sets of school fees on your own. So I presume you are more than capable of getting a higher paying role - or one that pays the same for fewer hours?

It's an off-topic suggestion but the hours you work seem crippling and stressful and don't seem justified by the disposable income you have (or don't).

Yes I'd definitely think very hard about sixth form. I really think DDs friends are going to have mixed feelings about coming from MC passably well off households, but still ending up with huge university debts because every penny and many of GP's pennies have gone on school fees for you and your siblings.

OP- you really need to consider your options- you have a lot of years left before your dc's leave school- and I don't see how you can possibly maintain your current pace. And your children and you never see each other- how can any school possibly be worth the absolute sacrifice of family life?

Have you talked to the school about a bigger bursary? Is their father in the picture?

Just seen they are y8 and y9. No way can you sustain this. There's been some good advice/thoughts on this thread. Time to reevaluate.

On the clean house / having friends home front: kids don't see dirt! You need to let them have friends home. My standards have dropped, dropped, then dropped some more since having kids but 2 or 3 nights a week the house is full of kids and tbh they are the nights that I get most of my 'housework' done. Some of the kids friends have been known to join in on occasion, and now they are starting to sort out their own nutritionally dodgy teas.

A good education is not a replacement for a happy family home and a stressed out overworked mum and, you just don't get these years back.

OP, I think you dont need to feel guilty. You have provided a wonderful education to your DCs, and maybe have opened a wider world for them. And they seems enjoy these.
What worries me is your feeling of your hard working, maybe too hard for yourself. Can you get your children to help with your housework? I think this is the most important part of their education. This will not only give you a bit relief, and also make them a down to earth person and teach them to appreciate your hard work.
My DS1 is at an independent school, we dont qualify for bursary, but we are just able to manage to pay the fees. Our house is certainly the smallest among his friends. We had this talk before he started this school. We choose a good education( we dont have good state school around here) so we have to give up something, like bigger house. He doesnt mind it. He really likes his school.
We dont normally go to the social events at school, just go to his concert, prize giving events. As we are quite busy, and also, I feel at secondary school, parents dont get involved into childrens friendship that much. I make sure invite his friends over a few times over the holiday, and he gets invite to theirs. Thats all.
And there are lots of clubs in the school, DS go to a few. He hasn't signed for any foreign school trips yet , although I did say he can go if he want. But they have lots of in the country trips and camping trips which some are free and some only cost a little money.

OP, have been reading your posts and others from the beginning, and trying to formulate a sensitive response as your dc's education is clearly very, very important to you.

You sound utterly worn out and the hours you're working sound inhuman. I am sure your children are lovely, but I doubt that they really truly understand the personal and financial sacrifices you're making, or will until they are parents themselves.

Have you looked at any of the alternatives available to you in the state sector- because if you're in a position where finances mean that your dcs aren't accessing things like sports, music or trips because of costs (assuming they are interested in these things ) then I wonder what your fees are buying you.

Londonsburning I too am sympathetic. You have aired this dilemma and elicited much the same responses previously but you must think after a low phase that it is still worth it. Personally I agree with all of the above and would definitely transfer them to the excellent sixth form that I think is available to you and I would start preparing them for that transfer now. They are still young now but when they mature they will see the positives of such a change and will probably find quite a few of their peers changing with them.

Thanks to many supportive posters. I think from time to time, I get triggered off into envy and wishful thinking when I've been around, for any length of time, (which happened recently) others who have an easier life than I do. Sometimes, I'd just love to be a SAHM, with a cleaner/housekeeper and time to look after myself (decrepit, overweight middle-aged and unfit) and have a nice clean and tidy home.

Other times, I appreciate what I've got and am proud of what I've been able to provide for DCs, with no financial or other kind of support at any stage. I can't even imagine relying on someone else's income to fund our lifestyle.

I appreciate that we're much better off than many of course and it's just the kind of people we mix with daily that elicits negative comparisons at times.

The thing about getting the DCs to help out domestically would open up a whole new thread! One helps a bit, minimally. The other never at all. I have to be in the right kind of mood and have sufficient time to endure a major confrontation, if I'm to get them to help out more, including time to 'train' them at the task in hand. It's quicker and calmer just to do everything myself. They also get a lot of homework and I never want to add housework to this too for them.

The 'friends' issue is a bit more complex as, given one of their 'issues' I'd have had to spend more time and effort than most to instigate and help sustain friendships for that DC. So even if I'd been a wealthy SAHM, that's a whole area of difficulty for one of them anyway.

Because of the nature of my work, I can do some of it from home and although I'm not available to DCs in 'blocks' of time, I always do every school run or maybe work from home for parts of the holidays. It's the good quality, extended time with a stress-free mother that they lack. I make all their meals and do all the domestic support for them. So they get to see me as I sprint past, put supper on the table, unload the laundry and then dash off to my office to finish some more work.

Summerends, I cringed with embarrassment when I recognised you from another thread. MN is my only cathartic 'outlet' and it always unnerves me to know that someone might have 'recognised' me. I expect you're one of the wealthy SAHMs I've been envying and I don't at all mean to speak disrespectfully of anyone, even if I sometimes wish I could 'borrow' a cleaner or even a whole 'day in the life of' another person!

I've considered state option for 6th form and also discussed this from time to time with DCs. The local and v good Sixthform college wouldn't suit my DCs because you really need to be quite independent and self-motivated, I think, to get the results there. Where they are already, will fulfill their needs better, if I can sustain my income till then.

One of them would be 'lost' in that other system and the other very quickly become 'lazy' and disorganised. One of the reasons their current school suits them well is that it provides peers similar to one of them (quirky, weird, 'little professor' type) and a structure that ensures the other DC (disorganised, unfocused, drawn to distractions) keeps on task and realises their potential.

My top priority is to keep going and do everything in my power to provide the best I can for my DCs. However, I obviously can't provide it all - just a stable - but scruffy - home base, a good, supportive education - and a (sometimes-not-as-stressed-as-other-times) mum.

For those of you who feel I'm whining, I use MN as a means of off-loading and don't at all mean to moan. It's just a good way to be able to say what is harder to say in RL, especially if those around you can't quite 'get it' as their circumstances are so different to mine.

My kids' sixth form college has actually been excellent at keeping my disorganised offspring on track. Constant, closely monitored assignments, and systems in place to put anyone slipping below their target grade firmly back on track. Seriously, I would investigate your options. Remember too that if they are massively over coddled, they are going to flounder badly at University.

I don't think you should underestimate the the quality of time spent on the school run, or simply sitting down for a meal together either. I can't sat I spend massive amounts of time physically hanging out with my mob; they are always off doing their own thing. But they now I am there, and we are close.

And come on, surely they can fit in a few chores, most kids do; be responsible for their own bedrooms, clear away after dinner, put the Hoover round once a week. That is basic stuff. You are not their servant OP, they are old enough to know the score and help out a bit.

They are year 8 and 9- you should be a team by now. There is no harm in them knowing that you are working harder than is sustainable and that if they want to stay in their current school (you have actually looked at other options, haven't you? You aren't just making assumptions?) they need to contribute a bit more. They are perfectly capable of an hour or so housework every other day, and of producing dinner a couple of times a week. If you are busting a gut doing everything for them, there is a big risk that either they will turn into entitled brats or they will look back in later years and be consumed with guilt when they realise what life was like. The second option is the most likely and the worst. Sit down together at the weekend and make a plan. Because you can't carry on the way you are now.

Just be aware that they will be expected to arrive at university as independent learners. If they haven't learnt that skill at sixth form or earlier they will flop quite spectacularly and all that education will have been wasted. Seriously think about the state sixth form. If their lack of independent learning means they flop the first year they can retake with college and your support close at hand. That won't necessarily be the case at university.

OP it seems that you're not going to move their schools. This is one area you are happy with.

What you need to do is find a way to enjoy life as things are.

First , I think you need to go easier on yourself. Being a lone working parent will always involve juggling and side stepping. But that's ok.

Few families provide a Sunday Supplement life for their DC.

Then you need a team talk. You need to tell your DC that you will pay the fees for the schools they want providing they help lighten the load...

It's quid pro quo!