Worst forms of selection in schools: Views of M'snetters

[thankgodimretired]

Interviews?
Questions concerning parental income?
Academic selection?
Previous school reports?
Decisions made by committee about whether to exclude certain individuals from attending?

Having just recently retired from the teaching profession, I am struck by how little things have changed over the course of my working life. There are certainly less overtly selective schools in the state sector than when I started out teaching in South London in the late 1970's. But the independents, grammars and faith schools appear to be more socially exclusive than at any time.

Yes. Yes, you have skewered my world view there. Congrats.

thankgodimretired is retired. I am gobsmacked at the "oiks" comment. I come from a family of teachers, none of whom would support such a view.

Selection may work the selected few, not for the unselected. Writing off kids at 11 because they "fail" an exam (maybe by one mark) and condemning them to a second rate school for "oiks" is immoral and counterproductive.

thankgodimretired MumTrying, I'm really not sure, are you familiar with any of the schools I mentioned? Yes I am.

Indeed many independent schools are full of rich thick oiks.

Don't you lecture me about grammar, NitWit.

Don't you badger me, I'm warning you now.

MumTrying, which ones?

Tea and biscuits anybody?

What are you going to do? Give NitWit lines?

thankgodimretired I am sure many people are familiar with at least one of the schools you have listed. BTW, they still have a selective intake:

www.theguardian.com/education/2014/jul/15/london-oratory-accused-cherry-picking-privileged-white-pupils

I will add that this is not a school I personally know.

thankgodimretired Liverpool Blue Coat

I'm assuming this is meant to be funny now?

The Oratory was certainly one of the most oversubscribed schools.

John Fisher's (I'm not entirely sure this is the name) a Catholic school in Surrey at which a colleague was head of dept. was extremely selective by all accounts, at one time this school asked parents for details concerning their income.

Cooper's Company was a private school in all but name.

*thankgodimretired The Oratory was certainly one of the most oversubscribed schools" Compared to?

BTW, I wasn't asking if they were selective, I was more interested in the claim that these schools were "Giving a kid from a rough side of town a chance in life" as certainly a number of those on your list, despite still using selection, are certainly not doing that anymore.

At what point did the selective schools you have listed stop giving these kids a chance in life (assuming they ever did)?

The idea is that companies be signed up in conjunction with the school gaining incentives from the Government for employing such students.

Given that on the whole, work based training leaves much to be desired, I fail to see how bribing companies to take the less academic children would work. It would depend on the size of the bribe, I suppose.

Having proper high status apprenticeships might work, but not if the more academic children are encouraged to try for Oxbridge/Russell group universities instead of considering them.

The London Oratory is a effectively a "Grammar School" with a 73/27% split of High/Middle ability students. 87% 5A*-C Maths/English is Very poor!

26 students out of 184 in a "Grammar School" failed to achieve the benchmark of 5 A* -C GCSEs including Maths/English that is a poor statistic for the school .

"Don't badger me. I'm warning you now."
Is this where I'm going wrong? Will this get rid of those whose opinions I find badgering or dislike. Where's Halkuyt shall I try it on her?
Oh hang on a minute this is an open forum and we live in a free country where people can express their own opinions however bizarre and even others disagree.

OP even if you have a valid point of view, frankly I don't know anything about the state schools you mention to comment, your manner is just not going to endear you or your points of view to anyone on here.

Sorry 23 students ! did not achieve not 26...

Thank God, where did you teach? If you are no longer teaching that makes you no longer a teacher. If you retire from the police you no longer are a police officer. Where are there still GM schools? .

Bring them back...put an end to Harris Academies...

I cannot believe a teacher of so long would be posting as you do .

I'm passionate about pedagogy, I was always a rebel at heart.

thankgodimretired put an end to Harris Academies... Is it just Harris Academies you want rid of or all Academies?

All academies lack standards, the pupils have no respect, they come into lessons behaving in an aggressive manner, eating fast food, and with corns in their hair.

My average student, I'm sorry to say.

thankgodimretired All academies lack standards, the pupils have no respect, they come into lessons behaving in an aggressive manner, eating fast food, and with corns in their hair. So you think this describes the selective academies such as Parmiters?

God no, Parmiter's is a very good school.

It's not one of those Academies is it, you know the ones I'm referring to.