Which SW London independent(s) should DD try for at 11+ ?

[castlesintheair]

It's all a bit complicated as we are currently overseas and DD1 has been learning a different curriculum in a different language since last year. We have a potential plan to come back for September 2015 when she will start secondary school.

Older DC has a place at KGS and DD1 is sitting that exam in January. However, given that she's not been tutored and has been out of UK system for nearly 2 years, where else can she realistically try for?

She's happy with co-ed or all girls. She's bright but wasn't top set bright at her UK outstanding state school. I don't think she'll thrive in an overly competitive all girls environment. She's an all-rounder really: loves sport, art, and very much into drama, dance, singing etc.

I'm not keen on Radnor or Ibstock. Any ideas?

You could use tutor who teaches for 11+/prep exams over Skype for your DC. I had one and both my kids passed 11+ to superselective grammars in London.
He used books recommended above and with his 40 years of experience (retired primary school teacher) was able to keep them motivated and well prepared. I was unable to find tutor locally and found him on internet.
PM me if you want his details.

Harrodian is an interesting and vibrant school. Have DS there. Good sport, great facilities, great drama, and music, and good exam results.

Are you going to the open days? They are all happening around now

Fresh from my new Y7 parents coffee morning at DDs new Indy so I am reporting back from the other end.

Sitting 5 schools seems to be the norm! but everyone I spoke to DCs received at least 3 offers, although some were waitlisted first. Many were surprised to get more aspirational schools, which they rejected because of travelling distance ( I was tempted to ask if the schools had moved since they went to the open days) but not to get offers at less academic middling schools they thought would be less popular. Nobody I spoke to knew of anyone from state or private sector who did not get into at least one of their choices, in fact most couldn't think of anyone who hadn't had a choice.

We seemed to have created a flashmob experience for school entrance exams in this area. where 600 DCs are moved about venue to venue to sit exams for schools they don't intend to go to.

I know quite a few who took 5 and only had 1 offer.

I honestly don't CountessDracula. Which schools didn't they get into?

Thanks for update cake. It is crazy when you think about it. I'm probably going to sit DD1 for 2 maximum 3 schools. She's already sitting for 2 in Paris and possibly another nearer to where we live now which is plenty imo.

CountessD, I've already visited all the schools from DS's day. The only one I haven't seen is WHS. Might try and squeeze that in but it's hard from overseas.

Two boys in DS's primary school class (from 2 years ago) sat around 4/5 each and failed to get any offers.

Oh all sorts
KGS, Latymer, Putney High, LEH, Hampton etc.
None failed Ibstock or Harrodian or SHS IIRC, so the ones who failed the schools above ended up there.

It's more the combination that interests me CD. As prep school parents in DS's time we were told choose 3 schools, an aspirational, a realistic and a backup. If this has increased to 5 schools I am assuming 2 aspirational, 2 realistic and 1 backup. If a child is only receiving one offer, it suggests the wrong choices were made.

Using the 2013 Sunday Times league table positions as a basic guide in SW London for a girl I may make the following choices. My DD I seems bright, I enter her for SPGS (1) and LEH (17) as my aspirational. I need to come down for my realistic so maybe Wimbledon High (68) and KGS (75), and then for my back up maybe Surbiton (110). However, I decide I only want the best for my DD so instead I decide to enter her for SPGS (1), LEH (17), CLSG (3), G&L (18) and might see Putney (23) as a backup. Well if she isn't as bright as I thought she could well end up with no offers at all. That would be my fault because the difference in the entry standard required by the top 30 schools is minimal as reflected in their very similar results. I appreciate that it can be difficult for some parents to know what is realistic, and not everyone has a HT to talk to, but to only receive one offer from 5 schools or none at all suggests some unrealistic parents.

I was asking which schools because the only one I have heard shock results from this year is Emmanuel, which had few places available. There are lots of DCs who didn't get in despite being offered places at "more selective" schools. This was the only "shock" experience from parents I have spoken to, and some of them are very shocked!

i know of a few who did not get any offers last year, including those applying for schools thought of as "easier" to get into (Radnor House, claremont fan). These kids weren't struggling that much academically, solid level 4s.

this is from state school though, albeit an excellent one, but without the handy headmaster/symbiotic relationship the preps and local indys apparently have.

I think what will surprise some parents is the sheer number of applicants as this is a bulge year and correspondingly a high number of very able children.Expect very high pass marks and tough competition.I know of prep school children with no offers and having to consider state and not for monetary reasons.

Check out the 2014 league tables, cake and you will see some movement (Wimbledon high doing better than Putney and in the Guardian league table, better than most of the others on your list). They are a guide, but nowhere near the story of each school.

If you are interested in WHS then their open day is coming up...new head to check out as well!

We seemed to have created a flashmob experience for school entrance exams in this area. where 600 DCs are moved about venue to venue to sit exams for schools they don't intend to go to.

This made me laugh quite a lot as it is very true. My DS sat 3 exams a couple of years ago at schools mentioned on here and had the same boy at the next desk (they were all organised alphabetically) in all 3.

One thing I missed out on last time round was checking the number of places there roughly were available. Its quite interesting as there are vastly different situations. Schools that have a junior school, for example, have fewer places available for Y7 entry than those that do not. I know that is completely obvious, but for some reason it sort of passed us by. Also there are some anomalies like Putney High, that have an extra class every few years (last year, not this year, I think, alas).

Also some schools have reputations for having differing levels of competition between girls and boys. Not quite sure how true that is, but I think the general consensus is that the area is effectively "one school down" for boys, and quite bright boys can effectively get squeezed - girls certainly have more nuanced choices.

I think it is more than "one school down" for boys to be honest. I think if the number of places for girls and boys were to be added up there would be a big difference. If St Paul's (very few places at 11 anyway) and KCS are beyond your reach academically then there's not a great deal left for boys other than Hampton (Halliford/Reeds/St James all a long way to travel). Everything else is co-ed. For girls there is LEH, Godolphin, NHEHS, Putney, Surbiton, WHS, St Catherine's, St James'. Even an excellent all girls state option in Twickenham if you live in one of the right places. It is SO much easier for girls.

"It is SO much easier for girls".

Thank you. That's what I need to hear!

SonorousBip, that made me chuckle too. There is a lot to be said for approaching this 11+ malarkey as an ignorant overseas contender!

interesting. i always had thought it was harder for state girls as they are competing directly with prep girls. in contrast many of the most academic preps have boys that don't move til 13 so a bit of a fairer playing field for the boys.
but yes now you list them many more options for girls. but does co-ed tends to be less favoured for girls? the stats suggest send girls to all girls and boys to mixed? (i'm sending dd to a mixed indy so am going against wisdom and in waldegrave catchment, must be crazy)

I think it depends on the girl
DD is defo not a girls school type girl.

Castles!! Hello when will you be back?

I need to read your whole thread....just waving first. About to start school visiting here ourselves, with similar remit minus the sporty part.

And having read, sounds like you are well on your way with choices!

I'm going to try not to pre-judge (hard after years of reading MN) and go see the schools within reasonable distance, that dd stands a chance of a) enjoying and b) getting into. Including RPA, KGS, and Kew (something about new schools and the buzz/openess to ideas that I like - and I'm sure it takes a couple of years to attract a wide range of abilities, as people usually go for the first 1-5 years because its an easier option, but by next year it should be on the up and I've heard the teaching there is great.). I'm ashamed to say that my lack of SW anxiety about schools meant I took my eye off the Emanuel closing date ball, and blew application by 5 days dd, however, is thrilled as she wasn't all that keen in the first place.

A broad palette for us!

Incidentally, my niece is now at Putney, and very happy indeed. I don't think it would be right for dd (who is more of a co-ed girl).

Ibstock, as you know, put me off for the same reasons as you...a shame, as very local for us. I have friends whose dc were asked to leave (primary age) when they didn't make the grade academically (in spite of shining in other areas), which I'm not in favour of in a community. Their siblings are still there and happy, though, so I guess its a very individual experience.

Hello Elibean!! If we come back it will be back in the summer ... The final decision is partly dependent on how DD1 does in exams (although I haven't told her that of course!). I like your thinking. Our girls sound similar. I would love to apply to RPA amongst others but can't do a thing about it until we are back. Similarly, being detached from the 11+ hysteria, I missed the Emmanuel deadline too. At least its one less school to fret over! Good luck with the whole fiasco Will be in touch when/if we are back.

I think hysteria is the operative word and it seems to ratchet up every year. When my older ds now year 10 did 11+, we registered for Emanuel after visiting in October. This year they reached the cutoff in June or July. Madness!

Tess - we too turned down Waldegrave for dd to go private, albeit a few years ago now. I was really put off the borough schools by lack of sixth form, which I think changes the whole atmosphere/ambitions of a school. Had we been applying now there is a sixth form, we may have had more second thoughts.

This year I have twin ds's and it is a nightmare! I wish I had more girls!

ohtobeanonymous One years tables really do not tell the whole story. I happen to know that this last cohort at WHS were a lovely one who stayed put and got good results whereas over at LEH they were, let's say an "interesting" cohort, with a lot of refugees at 16. Results are therefore down and you might also jump to the conclusion that certain departments were weak, only 9 did A2 History for instance, when in fact that could not be further from the truth. Potential historians left in spite of the teaching in the History Department, and indeed many other aspects of the teaching and facilities at LEH. Other cohorts have made the most of that.

Completely agree, shooting, that one year's league tables (and even a decade worth of league tables) don't tell the whole story.

Got the feeling OP is judging the quality of the schools only by the 2013 league tables, whereas we all know it is the school that gives you the best vibe when you visit that is most likely the one at which your DC will thrive!

Because they will be happy.

And there is not a huge amount of difference in the quality of teaching between the schools in the top 50, or even top 100! However, the selective nature of the intake is certainly very different.

Just to clarify I wasn't being judgemental about the schools and was only using the 2013 league table numbers as something objective to benchmark against, but I do now realise it looks as if I'm having a dig at WHS which really wasn't my intention so sorry if I've offended anyone.

I absolutely agree that the difference in results is due to intake not teaching, but the point I was trying to get across is that sometimes the schools parents choose as a backup are as aspirational as their first choices, but because its not their preferred school they somehow assume it won't be anybody else's and the entry bar will be lower. I have actually known a few parents apply the same logic to geography i.e. the further the school is from their home the easier it is to get into. I do maintain though that if you follow the formula and make realistic choices you will receive more than one offer.

The problem with school league tables is that we look at them. All these schools cull, there is no such thing as a community school. How many of these schools actually give priority sibling places? You will only have heard the stories about the schools closest to you that neighbours/friends children attend and assume it doesn't happen elsewhere, it does. DS's 7-18 school has a very small intake of 15 boys at 11+, only 9 were still there at Y9, and they lost a few earlier joiners every year in the previous years. If one of these schools dive 100 places down the league tables prospective parents are not going to assume "there must have been lots of sibling places that year", no they, and by they I mean us, will assume that the teaching deteriorated and the school is going downhill.

And when you factor all that in it makes the local state comps results look even more impressive!