9 GCSE'S grade C, no A level place

[FrancesNiadova]

My DS has got 9 GCSE grade C' s including maths, Eng. Lang, physics, biology & chemistry. He's 2 marks off a B in 1 subject so we're having it re-marked.
He's been told that he can't do A levels & will have to do a year's re-sits. I don't remember it being like this when I did my A's, or my degree, grade C counted as a good, "O," level pass!
Is anyone else experiencing similar barriers being put in their way?

Thanks honeysuckle I have always told him to go directly to the person who can give him the relevant information, especially after the debacle that we had regarding careers advice. It went along the lines of administer apptitude test, tell the kids what the tests say that they would be good at, and then zilch. No follow up or advice bar a sheet with some websites Considering his school is known as a fantastic grammer school I was less than amused that they took such a cavalier attitude towards the progression of their students. Unfortunately for them a lot of the parents weren't happy either and they have lost a lot of DS's cohorts to other 6th form colleges.

In one school i worked in, the sixth form spent the last week of year 12 in UCAS Week, writing personal statements etc. May were upset as there was no guidance on writing a CV, and they had to do it whether they were applying to uni or not. They were fobbed off with "well, a personal statement is just like a covering letter...".

Woeful!

Hi
Is the 6th form at the same school? because I am thinking they can't have it all ways.If they predicted him to be an A* student, then they should admit him to the sixth form on that basis.
wrt the BTEC.I don't know what your son is planning to do at uni, but engineering degrees in RG unis welcome BTEC + A level maths

*skinnedflowerpot Sun 24-Aug-14 13:22:34
But the B tec takes you nowhere. Thats the bottom line. In this day and age jobs are few and life is competitive. Most employers are not interested in it. You may as well leave with GCSE and get a job in Tesco's. The career path will be the same.

Lets all just get honest here*

I can't believe I have just read such snobbish drivel I'll have to tell the department I lead and my head that I will leave teaching so I can work at Tesco because apparently that is all I am worthy of

Skinned, well if you are getting all or most of your students who begin with a clutch of C grades at GCSE to AAB or ABB at A Level, you are doing exceptionally well and totally bucking the national trends, because there is widespread evidence,spanning years that pupils beginning pure sciences with a C in it at GCSE usually get a U and sometimes an E at A Level.......so you are boosting them by 4 or 5 grades. That must give incredible value-added scores and attract a lot of outside attention, because it really is so rare.
Is your college a training institution sharing its good practice with other schools and colleges, because I am sure they would like to know how you get students in sciences who begin with a C, to a B or even A at A Level.

And of course, all teachers differentiate work to deal with a range of ability. However, A Level is an academic course,so the range should not be nearly as broad as lower down the school. Being able to progress at a good pace and discuss at a similar level, is one of the joys of teaching or being an A Level student. There can be a significant difference between those who get A and A or B, never mind C which really is scraping a pass. However, you are obviously managing to stretch the able and still get the weaker students to A and B grades. Does that mean you have very high %s for A too? If you can get a GCSE C grade student to A at A Level, you must do amazing things with those with A/A*.
I am genuinely interested, because what you are saying sounds so unusual.

Reading this thread with interest as the parent of a dd with a string of Cs (well 6Cs and 1B). I agree with the poster who talked about this grade being the hinterland. In the real world (as opposed to MNworld) this probably reflects an average child. 53% of kids in 2013 - the year my dd got her gcses - achieved 5 or more a* - c grades including maths and English but not including equivalents. This year I think 68% of exams were graded as c or better suggesting that your 'average' 16 year old probably achieved 6 or 7 c/b grades...so really we are not talking about weaker students, really just very normal 16 year olds.
Now my dd is probably not typical as she has/had an EBD statement due to issues relating to her poor early life - I adopted her from the care system when she was 7. She has poor executive functioning skills meaning that she finds it very difficult to manage her time, write down important information like what she's got to do and when it needs to be handed in and generally prioritise learning without getting distracted by others (and obviously distract others herself). She is not stupid and if she didn't have these difficulties, I believe she would have been a B grade student.
Last September she started a L3 Btec in creative media at the local FE. It was an unmitigated disaster. She was unable to concentrate as the lessons were far too long (all morning), unfocused and she was usually left to work in groups which for someone like my dd meant doing anything but work. She lost her course notes and had no idea what to do for her projects or how to do it. She quickly list interest and started college refusing and eventually dropped out altogether.

Having a statement bought us a bit of leeway in the options opened to her, so next week she will start A levels - Eng Lang, psychology and business studies with an online provider set up for kids struggling to access mainstream education - school refusers, chronically ill, EBD like my daughter. I hear what people are saying about c graders, but what choice does she have? Too immature to access work or apprenticeship, too disorganised for Btec, too dim for A levels but too bright for level 1 and level 2 courses. The way I look at it, 3 Ds (or even Es but who knows, maybe Cs) at A level is better than pass, pass, pass at level 3 btec?

Yes I know that mums life, though I have seen courses she would be able to access. 2 years is a long time in the life of my daughter and really it's about 2 more years to grow up and be ready to access the world of work (though she does have university aspirations). Is buying 2 more years in time worth 3 x D grades?

Sorry I've just got back on, we've had visitors today - to try & cheer DS up.
Thanks for asking about his welfare Medibeagle, he is gutted & feels like a failure. His "clutch of C' s" are Maths higher tier, Eng Lang, Chem,Phys, Biol higher tier, Hist, Geog, Mus, Lit, ( he got a D in French, GCSE no.10), so it's not like he's taken obscure subjects.
There are a few home truths here about likelihood of achievement at A level; not what I might want to read but good to discuss with DS & DC to get a balanced view.
It is difficult to comprehend that he is classed as failing in the system, but for the figures he is classed as having passed. If a C grade at GCSE predicts a D at A level, then I think that he & youngsters like him should be allowed the opportunity to go on.

Queenofthemountain, no 6th form is not at DS's school, but it is at an associate school.

Chocolate Wombat, it isn't me the parent who necessarily wants DS to do A levels, he has said that A's are what he wants to do. I will support him & stand his corner no matter what he wants to do.
We had a career talk about uni & debt vs a trade, an apprenticeship & setting him up in his own business. I'll back whatever option he wants to do. He wants to do A's, uni & have a science-based career. His choice, not mine.

Good for him OP. There's no child in the world clever enough to truly make up for a lack of motivation. I hope that your child is the one who bucks the trend! As i said to mumslife, ensure he pesters the living daylights out of his teachers for extension work, extra help and past papers. Best of luck to him!

Bucks the trend= shows us what we know about it! I'd give my eyeteeth for a determined student... Always the best to teach. So glad to hear he's one of them!

My DD has quite a few friends who are going to university with their BTECS in September. Ok they are not going to Oxford or Cambridge but they are going to well respected ex Poly's doing thing like engineering and science.

My own observation is that kids who apply themselves properly at BTECS seem to find little difficulty in obtaining distinctions. I would also agree that kids mostly drop a grade from GCSE to Alevel.

In your position OP, I would look at the degree courses your son would like to study, check their entry requirements, and if possible go down the BTEC route.

DH does business with a lot of science companies, he says biochemistry graduates are well paid, likewise chemistry and even applied chemistry. Don't do forensic science though; it is considered very Micky Mouse.

OP I certainly wouldn't see your son as having failed. I'm sure his results are better than many many 16 year olds, and as you say, he has solid subjects and a great range.
If it turns out he can't do A Levels, then this does not make him a failure at all. It is just that A Levels are not for everyone. I don't think people who don't do A Levels are classed as having failed by the system.
If you want to pursue A Levels, I would ask the college/school for specific figures of how many students have taken the particular subjects with his academic profile, their A Level results and later destinations. This will give you a sense of what the outcome could be. At the end of the day, information is power. You and he need as much information as possible,to make informed choices.

Frances, I understand you wanting to support your son. That is very understandable. I guess a key role you can play is to help him have access to the information about the likely outcomes of his choices, so he too is informed. Whilst it is often good to support the choices of our children, it is also the role of us as parents, to advise them about what is realistic and achievable, even if that is difficult.

I hope all of you with children in this tricky position find that the colleges and schools are able to give you clear,open information and what is possible and that all of the children find a way to move forward happily, without feeling like failures. Best of luck to you all.

Tinkly, very good points.
OP, whilst asking about the likely A Level outcomes and university options for children with a profile like your son's, also find out the likely BTEC outcome and university options following that.
It would seem better to get good BTEC results that lead to a course at an ex-poly, than very poor A Level results, which might lead nowhere. The college/school should be able to advise you, but the fact they are currently not accepting him for A Levels suggests they think the BTEC would be the best option. Ask them to support that viewpoint with evidence.
And again,don't feel that A Levels are the only acceptable option and that anything else is a mark of failure. It really isn't the case and your son needs to hear that from you too,if he is not to feel like a failure. Sometimes we just have to rethink our path.

chocolatewombat - attract attention we might do but not necessarily for the number of GCSE grade C's who achieve but rather for general achievement but to say more, would lead me to a position where I would be indentifying myself

Is your college a training institution sharing its good practice with other schools and colleges, because I am sure they would like to know how you get students in sciences who begin with a C, to a B or even A at A Level

No it is not. I think I can say that. I can tell you how to get students those top grades but its not in line with current educational philsophy and so like so many things isnt readily taken up by educationalists or schools. Its not received educational practice, its what works though. Many I guess ( as I do not actually know much outside my own institution clearly) would rather select students to pass that get passes for students who self select by coming to the school.

But that is not going to help the OP is it?

I hope she finds something that her son wants to do and is happy with and he moves on to his biochemistry degree.

DC - his/her, cant remember which it was now. Apologies to OP

Does that mean you have very high %s for A too?*

This year my own class looks as follows:
2 x A* 2xA, 3xB ( one of those B's was very close to the A grade boundary) 1xC and 1 D ( the D was a EFL student whose English was quite poor and he had only been in the country two years and didnt have any GCSE's, so I was happy with that but it was not a C - and Ok, sometimes I do not make the grade).

I cannot say anything much more. This thread has been an eye opener for me. I geneuinely thought most places did what we did. My SLT do not congratulate me or my colleagues - I will be expected to explain the D grade in my report this year.

I cannot say more. It seems to be off topic somewhat.

Olivoir so next week she will start A levels - Eng Lang, psychology and business studies with an online provider set up for kids struggling to access mainstream education - school refusers, chronically ill, EBD like my daughter. I hear what people are saying about c graders, but what choice does she have? Too immature to access work or apprenticeship, too disorganised for Btec, too dim for A levels but too bright for level 1 and level 2 courses. The way I look at it, 3 Ds (or even Es but who knows, maybe Cs) at A level is better than pass, pass, pass at level 3 btec?

Now this rang bells for me. Not that I teach many pupils with EBD statements (I have had a few with dyslexia statements) but because of what you have said about 3x P at BTEC or take on A levels.

The most popular courses in my school are the ones you list. The are also amongst the most successful. Biology and Philosophy being the other two.

I teach in a face to face school but the thing you said about organising and dealing with notes etc. I have understand fully. In my own classes ,once a week I have a lesson (I teach in 40 min lessons) where I go round and organise all students notes, pick up things missed and correct stuff. This is not received wisdom in teaching but it works. You may well need to ensure you do this for your DD. I am not a big clever teacher type,b ut just suggesting what works for me and might help your DD.

2 years is a long time in the life of my daughter and really it's about 2 more years to grow up and be ready to access the world of work (though she does have university aspirations). Is buying 2 more years in time worth 3 x D grades?

A lot of the parents of the kids I teach think it is, thats why they are with us. Best of luck to your daughter as she starts a new course.

I really find it equally depressing that posters seem to be dismissive of D and E grades (A level) as if no university will accept them. They guy with a D in my subject (got a D and a C in his others, and has a couple of C/D AS levels is going off to Bangor University (OK , so not Cambridge but what the heck, not exactly a no hope place either).

Of the others (these are the GCSE C graders now - we also have a number of higher grade kids on roll). Two are going into B Ed ( an aspiration from the outset for both), One is going to Royal Holoway, a whole handful or more to the local universities (both listed in the top 50 and both Russel). Many of the kids I teach are "homebirds". Bristol is another popular destination (they like to stay together too). Southampton, Birmingham, Leeds ...... Two applied to the local college for an FdA with the third year at the local university (which is RG btw and which awards the degree they will receive).

As for previous students, most are employed now. I do not think we have any "top flyers" yet. Although we have a couple of solicitors in the local town who are our alumni. But how many DC are going to be top flyers from whatever grades?

How do you define success? Is someone who goes to Cambridge and ends up a teacher any more or less successful that the one who goes to the ex poly and does the same (and in the same school)?

I do believe that if someone wants to take A levels then they should be allowed that route and should not be forced like a square peg into a round hole of BTEC. BTEC isnt for everyone with grade C GCSE and neither should it be. It should be about choice - the pupils choice, not the teachers. Thats where motivation ( the biggest decider of achievement) starts.

My best wishes and hopes to all those trying to find a way through the system now.