Preconceptions are there to many Russians and Chinese in private school?

[Kenlee]

Whilst reading through the threads. I find that there is a preconception amongst some. That the demographics of private school are now made up entirely of Russians and Chinese.

I however disagree. My daughter is the only ethnic Chinese in her year group and her best friend is the only Russian. The rest are local English girls.

I really don't think having one or two foreign students in your class will affect the outcome of your childs education.

Rant over....

Kenlee what is classified as too many is a matter of opinion but obviously could n't be said by any stretch at your DD's school . However there are much higher frequencies at other girl schools such as CLC and Roedean. I think my concern as a parent choosing such a school, would be trying to judge whether its marketed good results reflect more the high attainement and work culture of ethnic Asians (especially if they are overseas and joining at sixth form) than added value to my British child. Going from one generalisation to another, a perceived problem with older Russian children in private schools is excessive money spending.

I think amongs boarding schools especially away from the very famous over subscribed ones, those with a mix of full, weekly and flexi boarding it is not uncommon for the vast majority of the full boarders to be by Chinese and Russian children. In some schools their English might not be so good thus reducing the chances of them mixing with other children. This understandably worries UK parents if they themselves are looking for a full boarding place. At my DS's well know and over subscribed boarding school there are few Russians or mainland Chinese but quite a small but significant number of HK Chinese, most speak excellent English and are fully integrated into the school and mix well. On the other hand a friend has a small under subscribed boarding school near her which actively recruits Chinese into their 6 th form they are now the only boarders, and are reluctant to mix with the English day children. Another friend in London was telling me that her middle of the road (in terms of results) independent secondary has also recently started recruiting in China. They are a day school but the Chinese children are living with UK families with children at the school. They provide a two year intense English Language course and the Chinese sit a limited number of GCSE's and then 3/4 A levels. They are doing this to improve their results and position in the league tables. It's apparently slightly backfired as the children do the first two years get excellent GCSE results, improve their English and then go off to a more prestigious boarding school for the 6th form!
Finally many boarding schools particularly boarding preps schools have seen the Chinese and Russians as an answer to their prayers for help. Struggling to fill their vacancies as the number of UK parents with £33+ a year to spend on school fees is dwindling rapidly, no longer within the reach of the professional middle classes like country solicitors, GP's etc, they have turned to the Russians and Chinese.

Hello Kenlee. My DD is at one the top girls' private schools which is London based. Her form has a whole mix of nationalities and religions and I am perfectly happy with that. One would have to score very highly academically to be granted an interview; the interview itself is rigorous so I know they have selected the right mix of girls for that type of school, regardless of background. They all muck in together and no one is bothered about background. The mix reflects the local demographic. Maybe things are different away from London ...

It's the nature of the schools surely. If a school offers full boarding then it's likely to be favoured by families from overseas just because anything less than full boarding with plenty of children around at the weekend etc is not what they require ( having not got local family etc).

Day schools/weekly boarding aren't going to have many kids who's families liv abroad.

My sons co ed, private secondary, is not as mixed as his non private primary. His primary was Roman Catholic, so the mix was therefore more (but not solely) European, than global.

I think a mix is good. At least, in most private schools you have a very narrow socio demographic mix, and I believe it is good for children to mix with, get to know and respect, children from all sorts of backgrounds. Maybe children of different cultures can sort of make up for the narrow demographic range?

My Chinese neighbor will send her children to the local Jewish school, btw.

Apparently, OP, having huge diversity on state school is brilliant but awful at independent schools ...

well, it's fair to say that, in London certainly, a lot of the uber-wealthy will be Russian or Chinese, and that an English education is highly valued. School fees have gone up massively since I was at school in the 80s, I doubt my parents could afford it now.

Looking at my old school's FB page, there are a lot more Chinese girls than there were in my day (I think there were a couple in my year). I'm not sure I can tell a Russian from a photo so can't comment there.

But I wouldn't see it as an issue - my school was actually far more mixed ethnically (if not socially) than many of the local schools here in inner London where I live - the reason we chose DD's school, which is not the nearest state primary, is because it had a better ethnic and social mix than the nearest which was predominantly one ethnic group (not white British).

DD1 had a fair few Chinese at her girls' boarding school. The overall percentage is now given as 17% but it is way higher than this in the 6th form where the vast majority of new girls are Chinese. They actively recruit in China and staff go out to have meetings with the parents there. It is now expected that a Chinese girl will be a Deputy Headgirl, irrespective of merit. There are less Russians but that will change. No day girl is Chinese. All the Chinese girls have guardians and these appear to be agencies because they turn up with minibuses at holidays and exeats. The school benefits from having very talented musicians and science/maths pupils (obviously not all are talented in this way) and their university destinations are first class. The marketing of the school then benefits. There is little proper integration unless the Chinese girl is resident in London, prefers to speak English , sees herself as Western in culture, and wants English friends. Many do not see themselves like this and do not keep in touch with anyone. That is absolutely fine. It made no difference to us choosing the school.

At DD2's school, it was viewed as less academic and hardly any Chinese girls were there and a few Russians. They are struggling to recruit, so no doubt they will have to market in China/Russia more effectively to stay afloat. This is a very well known school.

Kenlee, perhaps you might answer the same question?

Certainly the East Asian parents of one of my children's friends suggested that they had moved their very bright child half way across the world because they wanted to AVOID the extreme academic pressure in their home county and were seeking a more rounded education. Oddly I think they would have been put off a school if they thought there would be significant numbers from the same county whose game plan was to spend two years in the UK to gain the grades and English needed to apply for top flight US and English Universities, without taking part in wider school activities. .

In short, I don't think the issue, insofar as there is an issue, is one of race but of culture, and even then I think there is only an issue if groups within the cohort have very different ideas of what boarding education is about, and fail to work well to deliver a constructive, diverse and international community.

Ditto Russians. The ones we have come across have been popular and mix well. We have heard the odd story, which may well be true, of very rich students who turn up in an English boarding school rather shell-shocked, and who then find it quite hard to make the transition from a pampered life back home to chilly playing fields and indifferent school food.

So not really about race. There would be a problem if children from a specific part of England, or a specific class were reluctant to mix with others from a different background. The question for schools might be how they deal with any potential cliquishness, caused by taking in significant groups from different backgrounds.

Thank you for all your replies....

I have actually found a school near my daughters that is actually 50% Chinese ....Its gets very good results academically. They also have a Chinese New Year firework display..

So maybe there is some truth in the statement...

Which to me is utterly horrifying. Why send your DD to an English school if she only mixes with the Chinese? How will she learn the culture and to gain an English education? How will she get to know other cultures abd to understand them?...

I would not send my DD boarding if that was the case. I would let her suffer the pressure cooker in Hong kong instead.

because the teachers will be, in the main, British, and the outlook, school ethos and culture etc will be British. School trips will be to British museums, galleries, countryside for field trips. Sports will be traditional British school sports. And whilst the Chinese pupils may well all hang out together they will be mixing with the British children, more than they realise, probably.

Yes but this can still be an issue for boarders. If overseas students are predominantly from one country and day pupils predominantly from another, and neither group wants to mix, they can probably co-exist quite happily. The problem occurs if you then have a few UK based boarders, or overseas students who came to Britain to mix with the British and students from countries other than their own. If groups form, the worst off can be non Chinese speaking ethnic Chinese who are assumed by others to be Chinese, yet assumed by Chinese to be Western.

Kenlee. If a parent is resident in China, how they can enforce whom their child mixes with? My DD had one Chinese girl in her year for years 7 and 8. In year 9 she was joined by 3 others. All were well integrated, spoke English, and came to stay with us. My DD went to China (HK) to stay with one of the girls and they went to the Olympic Games equestrian events and had a holiday in Macau. These girls were just the same as everyone else, day or boarder. They shared the same jokes, ups and downs of school life and were fully involved in house activities.

In the 6th form lots more came and there was a problem between the integrated Chinese girls and many of the new ones who only wanted to speak to each other in their native language, except one or two, and study. The existing girls were not impressed at their lack of effort to integrate! Clearly some parents/children value the British School ethos but if the pupils are not bothered about speaking to the British pupils, or even the integrated Chinese pupils, I don't see what their parents in China can do about it. In the 6th form sport can be minimal and there is plenty of time to study, watch films and do other activities as a Chinese group, rather than a culturally mixed group. DD found the same at University where the Chinese girl in her group of 6 rooms in halls, was awake until the early hours of the morning, never came to any event in the hall and spent all her time with friends from the Chinese society. She was doing veterinary science! I guess not everyone wants to mix.

That is exactly my point. You can't . So when selecting schools you have to find those little gems that will encourage your child to be the best at what she can be. Without the hot housing.

Although I have to admit Bejing girl does look in on my daughter everyday as she is a sixth former and my daughter is only finishing year 7. Which I think is nice.

Even she admits being in the year with no other Chinese has helped her spoken English improve so much faster. In fact she speaks with a very nice Surrey accent.

I still think that in boarding schools having a higher percentage of overseas ethnic Chinese entering at sixth form can inflate a school's results and university entrance record. CLC for example demands a much higher level of entry at sixth form than lower in the school and most entrants are overseas. Integration is another issue. It is probably more of an issue again for sixth form entrants. Children who come over at prep school age or years 7to 9 generally extremely well integrated.

I don't think there are many ethnic Chinese at DD1's boarding school. In the boarding house, the highest % of students is American, followed by Brits, then Russians and Kazakhs. Also quite a lot of Spanish kids and Canadians.

And quite a lot of Nigerians.

Milly - was your DD at CLC? I understand that there have been integration issues there in the past, and that they are trying to counter that by placing girls in the junior boarding houses rather than parents choosing so that there is a mix of children. Much harder in the 6th form when there is quite a big intake, especially if they are from one cultural group.

No not CLC.

At our school, parents did not choose houses. Therefore overseas girls were spread around but in the 6th form there was plenty of opportunity for the Chinese girls to stay together as a group and you may find this is the case in your school, Kenlee. Also, there is nothing to suggest the school did not do its best for the overseas girls because they got wonderful results and went to the best universities. However, many of them were not really part of the school community, by choice.

Parents do not really know how many children will be arriving from their ethnic group into a schools' 6th form so how do they find the gem of a school that does not have many Chinese girls? Numbers can change very quickly if a school decides it wants to recruit from China. The overseas students keep many schools afloat.

Although we are rarely present in the UK. We do have a very good PTA member who keeps us informed and helps to integrate our daughter in out of school activities. Which I think is very kind of her.

I would hate for my duaghter not to be part of the school. Joining in is part of the fun with boarding as is having many friends from different back grounds.

In his last year at prep school, DS had to show round a set of parents on Open Day.
He was a bit taken aback because the father seemed fixated on the number of Russians at the school. DS thought one of the boys in his year might be Russian - he had a Russian name, he thought - but he'd never really considered the nationalities of the other boys.

However, he did want to be helpful, so he speculated at length about all the nationalities - boys and staff, offering information about his own background, too.

I bet the man wished he'd never asked

My ds goes to a prep school in the SE. In his year with 3 forms and a total of about 54 children, 6 are Russian. I think that is a big percentage. They are really nice kids except for one who is a neglected rich kid and therefore not very nice.

Some schools are nearer 40% in the 6th form although less lower down the school. 6 out of 54 is not that great.

Next year in my boarding house we will have about 4/6 from China out of 80. But only 20 or so are full boarders (all but 4 are international pupils), so weekends will have a very different vibe to week days

I think some schools limit the number of overseas pupils so that they don't have a critical mass from one particular country, and there is a better mix.