question for maths teachers

[dalziel1]

What happens to children who attain level 8a in maths before year 9?

Also, is level 8 massively more challenging than level 7 such that children who didn't struggle with level 7 (or 6, 5 etc) may suddenly hit BLOCK AT 8? (By way of background, Ds is at 7a now at the end of year 7)

I'm not a maths teacher, but I do have an able DS, and have been watching previous threads with interest.
DS first achieved level 8 at the end of Year 5, and recent end of year 7 test puts him at 8a. I don't know about some levels being harder than others, however I do think a child can scrape a score on a test but not be consistently performing at that level. For DS I would say he's now consistently there, and though on paper it looks like he's not made huge strides in the last 2 years I'd say he is much faster and more adept with the complex stuff which is good progress. Like others I'd also caution about getting hooked up on levels and try to think about the broader picture. Others have talked about the UK Maths challenges and how good these are. They've really engaged DS and there's stacks of stuff on their website. For DS the challenges have meant he's had an opportunity to check in and see for himself how he's progressing - he got merit in the intermediate kangaroo, and is waiting for JMO results now. In his non-selective comp he's thoroughly loving maths as his teacher is really creative and allows him to do a mix of course work, Higher GCSE book, UK Maths stuff and NRich. I take the view that I can't expect them to create something just for him, but I do want them to keep his needs in mind. Certainly at the moment he seems to be making progress with a 'menu' of activities to choose from. Plus there's all the broader changes and new subjects at secondary that have kept him interested, so for him it's not all just about maths!

Thanks, jeandawson your post was interesting to read.

DS is one of several in his class who have attained 7A, and every child is a 7 of some kind. Apparently, the teacher is very pleased as it has not happened like this ever before..! (i suspect the popularity of the level 6 sats may have played a part).

I was just (idly) wondering what the school will do in year 9 with them all. I expect the school will tell us at some point, but I was curious now. Maybe its as you say and they will just extend them in other ways to keep their brains in gear before they start the GSCE courses in year 10?

I have friends who are secondary maths teachers and their mantra is always 'sideways extension', including one head of maths whose daughter is at Oxford reading the subject. I trust her!
They may be all 7 on a test but may not be functionally completely competent with all work at that level, so I would honestly relax and think broader. I think its not about ticking a box to say you've achieved a level therefore must move on, but how you use it in more broady.
FWIW DS did the calculator allowed paper without a calculator this year .......... so he challenged himself, he couldn't have done that 2 years ago, and that mental maths ability must make harder stuff even more accessible. I don't think that gifted children need their brains keeping in gear; don't they do it themselves?
Having a creative school helps - our head of maths described 'taking a punt' on DS for the IMC, with amazing results for DS as he was best in school .... what a chuffed boy we had that day!
I am amazed though how many parents seem to know what levels all the other children are at. That sort of information just isn't shared here.

IMC - Investment Management Certificate??

"I am amazed though how many parents seem to know what levels all the other children are at. That sort of information just isn't shared here."

I hope you don't mean me? I don't even know who is in DS's maths class (apart from maybe 4 others) and I have no idea what anyone else has individually, except what DS related to me, quoting the teacher's general remarks last week.

Sorry, Intermediate Maths Challenge. Like the Junior one but for years 9-11. Did your school do the JMC and Olympiad?

I would echo other posters. Focus on sideways extension and broadening experience rather than the pure level.

I teach A LOT of pupils who arrive in y7 with 'a level 6' that they have scraped on a sats paper. They look like they haven't made progress in y7 whereas by the end of the year they are now a true 6a.

I expect progress to slow next year (in level terms) due to the amount of stuff needed for level 8. There is only EP after that. I expect your child to be exposed to a lot more functional and enriching activities.

No, lots of the other posts on other threads talk about what levels all of the kids are at. We only see teachers once a year in the Spring, so wasn't sure how people got that info? If I believed DS he'd be top for everything, apart from sewing which he admits to being absolutely the worst at !, but he never seems to know what others are getting apart from one or two of his mates.

There's a mother of a boy in DS's classes who knows DS exam results intimately. Our children were at primary together too. She could remember Ds's test results, in sequence, going back several months.

The thing that shocked me most, apart from the extreme interest in a child that wasn't her own, was that she demonstrated to me perfect recall of DS's scores when she bumped into me unexpectedly in town one day. So she knew them off by heart.

I used to wonder if something unprofessional was going on in the school office but I eventually realised that her son was quizzing DS to find out what he got after every test and then going home to tell his mum.

I have to say that I found it weird and a little annoying. Why do people do that? Its not like they are in competition with each other for one job/ prize/ university place etc

The new GCSEs have far more content than the old GCSEs so I expect the brightest students would just start plugging away at that.

dalziel1, Letts and CGP do revision guides for different levels so you could see what the next level up will involve. Most libraries have copies, if you wanted to have a look through. I see no reason why he should hit a block with his ability.

If your school is finding ways to extend his maths, (which it seems they are if they are giving him these levels) and he feels he is being challenged, then I would say there is not a problem.

The UKMT website is worth a look at. Children who are good at maths tend to find the competitions they run fun. Dd got gold in JMC and IMC (y6).

I took the decision with dd to let her do GCSE early. I just got sick of teachers telling me she was not at the level I was claiming her to be and dd upset, because she was learning nothing new. At least with a GCSE certificate there is no arguing about levels.

She'll be starting secondary in September and for the first time in ages is looking forward to maths lessons.

JustRichmal - are you saying that your primary school age DD has a GCSE?! That is amazing. How rare is that?

I know what you mean about primary school teachers constantly disputing levels as a defence against actually teaching something new. Its an issue I have with my other child, DS2 who is still at primary school (but nowhere close to being ready to sit a GCSE). He has spent years mentally jogging on the spot whilst "waiting for the class to catch up", as various teachers have put it. I've officially given up on primary school now and, if DS2 wants me to, i will teach him maths at home next year for a couple of hours per week just to help maintain his interest.

dalziel1, thanks for your comments, but it's really not that rare. I did one look it up and I think it's hundreds who do GCSE maths before 14.

I think it is worth keeping up their interest by teaching them at home, if you have the time.

Dd also likes Khan Academy and she does this mostly by herself, but it does follow a mainly American curriculum.

This was my dd, she sat her GCSE in yr 9. She sat additional maths this year. Next year (11) she will probably resit for a higher grade!

I did give you a couple of ideas on at the end of this thread Dalziel

Feeling very lucky that we're in a school that's offering so much sideways stretching, and that DS is happy. Obviously not the case for all. Anyone know when the JMO results are out?

must apologise for my grumpy tone. Unnecessarily snappy :(

jeandawson, it can't be that much longer for the JMO results as it's only 3 weeks to the end of term. We've got no great hopes for dd getting in the medals as the questions are so different from anything she's done before. Hope your ds does well.

Their fb page said they were marking them last week.

DCs school starts GCSE Maths (and Science) in Y9 regardless of levels, they reset the students across the whole school rather than in two halves at that point.

DS1 (top set) did Maths last year at the end of Y10 (A*) and has just done Further Maths.

This years Y10 top set have done the same, and the intention is the same for DD currently in Y9.

After that, who knows, that's when the new GCSE kicks in.

maths and "further maths"?! I didn't go to school in England so I am confused by this.

Is maths a basic thing that all children are expected to sit and then further maths is maybe the more complex stuff. Do both have calculus?

I don't think calculus is in GCSE Maths anymore, but am happy to be corrected.

Yes, most students will sit GCSE Maths, as I understand it this moved them on beyond that, but not as far as AS level, but will act as kind of a bridge. It was the AQA Certificate in Further Maths.

DS is intending to do Maths and Further Maths A levels so it was a good foundation for him.

Some schools do statistics as an additional GCSE for their most able students.

Calculus isn't GCSE, but it is in the AQA Further Maths qualification.

For those who don't do further maths the first time they encounter calculus is in core 1 in A level maths.

In our school, Further maths is more sideways than beyond, I think. Lots of statistics. DS is doing further maths for one of his GCSEs; he's A but probably not A* material supposedly. Now about level 6-7 at end of yr9.

he got A* on a science paper, though. I could kill him!