'State schools are creating amoral children'

[BurgenSnurgen]

...because state schools are under so much pressure to improve results that there's no time to teach them right from wrong.

So says Chairman of the Independent Schools Association

Bit speechless really. It's giving me the absolute RAGE.

Ubik - and sacrifices.

Compromising on soft furnishings...

compromising on soft toilet paper....

Working hard

hedwiggity when i have DC they are being homeschooled with some extra activities outside home to mix with kids their own age and play parks etc but not letting a state school get hold of them that's for sure.

Good luck to your kids, they're going to need it.

The crucial part of that post is that she doesn't have children yet

I see that hedwiggity is talking about hypothetical children and hasn't taken on board that they have views of their own. I thought they were blank sheets before I found out differently.

"His speach is full of what are in effect class assumptions"
It's only those nasty independent ed supporters who are full of assumptions whatever their roots.
"You stick to your prejudices if it makes you feel better"
No sticking to prejudices from the state ed supporters of course.

Cross posted Ubik1- I expect she has her whole philosophy of parenting worked out before she has the child and knows what suits them.

Bit spiteful delphinium.

Ubik1 "The crucial part of that post is that she doesn't have children ye"t

I think you will find that the crucial part is the fact that they are saying they had a crap education themselves and they are now going to educate their own children ;-)

Eh, how did I post that at Thu 15-May-14 19:01:43?
What I meant was Richard Walden obviously hasn't been to my DCs state school.

I said 'stick to your prejudices'- I don't have any. There are excellent state schools and dire ones with everything in between. There are excellent private schools and dire ones with everything in between. There are excellent HEers and dire ones with everything in between.
I don't know of one terrible school, or even several, and assume that all are terrible! I also don't work out what is best for my child before they are born!

It wasn't spiteful. I can't see that it is any worse than her telling me that my children have been to crap schools and I have failed them!
Lots of people work out their birth and parenting philosophy first- easy when it is hypothetical. Maybe I should stick to my general 'smile and nod and ignore' and wait for reality to hit.

happygardening "Bit spiteful delphinium".

??????

Happygardening: what I was saying is that his ignorant assumptions about state / independent education have been expressed in a divisive way - and have had a divisive effect.

A MUTUAL divisive effect.

For Independent school fees comparison, we're dirt cheap, up here. This is Alexander Armstrong's old school www.durhamschool.co.uk/fees-and-charges.asp

rgs is Newcastle is Aldi, in comparison www.rgs.newcastle.sch.uk/Fees

I wasn't being spiteful- I assumed she was HEing. As it turns out she may finds she gets a child like me -desperate to go to school. My father didn't like school- it had no relevance to me- I am a different person and it is a different time and place. You at least need to know your child first and your local options. Who knows what schools will be like in 5/6/7 yrs time?

ouryve "rgs is Newcastle is Aldi, in comparison" - Did make me laught lol :-)

im sorry? what? - do the children referred to in this posting not have parents, grandparents, family or any other support network? if that's the case, and these children have been deprived of the love, care, and nurturing that they need to enable them to grow into morally balanced and emotionally balanced individuals, then i absolutely agree that this is a difficult dilemma for schools, and not an easy situation to manage with the minority of children who have a critically dysfunctional home life.

other than that... seriously... what are parents doing out there? im pretty sure that right and wrong is learned, at home, from a very early age. it is supported and reiterated at school, BUT SURELY WE SHOULD NOT ABSOLVE OURSELVES OF THIS RESPONSIBILITY? isn't this one of our primary mandates, as parents? jeez? nanny state gone completely wrong. topic for my next book i think! next thing you know people will be suing the government because their children have 'emotionally malfunctioned'. TIMES NEWSPAPER I'm appalled you promote this crap!

Yes, and equally, a lot of privileged, financially advantaged and otherwise cranially underachieving children have learned to believe, either through status and/or money that certain moral misdemeanours can be financially cleansed.
It is quite probable that the vast majority of poor, state-attending low-lifers (and I include myself in that statement) can learn best practice from our predecessors: the ones who worked hard, the ones who, paid their dues (their REAL dues and not what they thought they could get away with)and the ones who scrimped and scraped for every penny. Quite often, it is their offspring who learn that life and its riches come at a cost. Regardless though, private or state school, a child's morals are learned way before they start school. So if a child, at secondary school is amoral, who is really to blame?

Let's take a quick look at the jobs which feature a high proportion of privately educated people: the current cabinet, investment banking, corporate boards. Anyone happy with the morality demonstrated there? From practical experience at Durham uni, the most unpleasant, cruel, self interested, dangerous and hedonistic people came from 'the best' public schools. That's setting aside the automatic unfairness that a bought education and the old school tie causes. Maybe a moral code is taught in private schools but if so, it is either very flawed or taught as a 'these are the the principles that others will follow, that you can ignore due to your privilege and take advantage of in others'

Very true gingergenie and asharah.

So asharah what your saying is that if you go to "the best" schools you are likely unpleasant, cruel, self interested, dangerous (?) and hedonistic. That quite a sweeping statement and if I wrote that about state educated children were likely to turn out like this many would be justifiably offended and angry.
I've spent my whole adult life working with people from illegal immigrants, drug addicts, life's drop outs, major and minor criminals, psychopaths, your average man/women/child though to the wealthy the exceedingly wealthy, and the titled, all nationalities. I've met the unpleasant and cruel, definitely the self interested, the genuinely dangerous and the hedonistic they come from all walks of life, all classes, all background, all nationalities. Actually looking back over 30 years of working with people I've met relatively few who have all of the traits.

I didn't think she was saying that- just pointing out there is no difference- the amoral are not produced by schools- you get them whatever their education.