'State schools are creating amoral children'

[BurgenSnurgen]

...because state schools are under so much pressure to improve results that there's no time to teach them right from wrong.

So says Chairman of the Independent Schools Association

Bit speechless really. It's giving me the absolute RAGE.

I'm not naïve, Bonsoir, I just don't think profiting from naivety is moral.

Do you think that the barrage of unjustified complaints that customers make every day are moral, rabbitstew? There are two sides to every story. You seem to only see one.

I don't see only one, Bonsoir, I just think it's a bit pathetic to behave badly with the excuse that others do it to you, so why not?

And let's face it, it's normally the companies with the worst service that have the hardest to reach customer complaints lines.

I'm saying rabbit that breaking rules and laws is not solely the preserve of oligarchs.
Most criminals must believe rules don't apply to them and they are from poor working class uneducated backgrounds.
What I'm trying to say is that amorality or even immorality cannot be associated with only one section of the population.

It's not bad behaviour, it's self-defence. I bet self-defence wasn't a value in your upbringing.

Actually I had a big run in with JL a few weeks back I didn't initally find their complaint dept very helpful, lots of being kept hanging on etc, on a 0845 number but eventually a very helpful man saw it from my point of view but only after I'd spent time talking to a few very unhelpful types and had been on the phone for over 25 mins.

happygardening - I don't believe I've said at any point that amorality or immorality is limited to one section of the population. Surely you noticed I attributed it to the whole of society?

Bonsoir - it's not self-defence, it's self-justification.

Bonsoir - believe me, I know how to defend myself. I don't believe it would be moral for me to pretend I haven't done wrong when I have, though.

No it's not self-justification. Every day companies get customers trying to rip them off and get something for nothing. Stop assuming that all customers are good obedient innocents and all companies are big evil exploiters.

Bonsoir - which bit of my saying that capitalism is amoral are you not getting? Why do you think I'm picking only on big business? It is frequently not in business interests, or personal economic interests to do the moral thing. This whole thread was started on the basis of whether state schools are making children amoral. I have merely pointed out it isn't state schools that are doing that, it's the society we live in.

I'm quite sure that every day, companies get customers trying to rip them off and get something for nothing. I'm also equally certain that every day companies are fobbing people off when they've provided nothing for something.

Capitalism is perhaps amoral in your personal value set, rabbitstew, but not in other people's more rounded value set. I think you need to revisit the value set you were given in childhood and plug a few gaps.

Bonsoir - that's a fairly pointless thing for you to say, as my fairly obvious retort is that I think you need to revisit your value sets.

Although to be honest, I actually think it is rude and arrogant in the extreme to tell someone to go back and revisit their thought processes, rather than bother to argue the toss with them or just agree to disagree...

So, I would rather say, I disagree with you, Bonsoir.

I'm not sure the head said states schools are making children amoral, rather that freed up from government interference and obsession with results independent schools have more time to enable children to fully develop their moral compass.
From looking at the website and watching to the slightly naff video of this heads school, this is clearly their implication in particular that the determination and discipline of pursuing and extra curricular activity helps strengthen a moral compass.
Is it possible (thinking out loud) that smaller classes with a less prescribed curriculum free staff up to spend more time discussing things like morality? Do schools really play that big a role? I suspect bigger than we'd like to acknowledge. Does the relentless pressure to succeed seen in both sectors actually encourage bad behaviour and in fact harm a child's developing moral compass?
I really don't know the answer to these question just posing them to see what others thing.

Anyway, where's happygardening - she argues in a way that makes me want to agree with her.

Oh, you have posted, happy!

I agree that extra curricular activities can help to create a more rounded person. I don't think they always succeed in making you a more moral person, but I think they can open your mind to considering what sort of life you would like to lead and which values picked up from your experiences you would most like to direct you in the life you go on to lead after school. The wider your experiences, the wider I think you will perceive you options to be.

Life is not all about study but not everyone can afford to build a varied extra curricular life outside of school.

Basically, I think it's an awful lot more about confidence and self-belief than morality.

In fact, much more sensible to leave the idea that you are more moral if you have experienced more things out of it, because that's a wee bit offensive.

I'm not sure why it is offensive to suggest that you might have a finer moral compass after you have experienced the world more. We live and learn - in morality as in all else.

You could also argue that as we live, we learn that the world is not the moral place we used to think it to be, which is not the same thing as realising that its morals are more "fine" than we used to consider them to be.