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Secondary education

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Value added scores for independent schools

167 replies

papalazaru · 05/05/2014 09:57

Is there a way to find these scores? I'm looking at different schools for my daughter who is currently in Year 5. When comparing the schools using GCSE results obviously you can rank them but if a school is highly selective with its intake then it follows that their results will reflect this. However, a school with a good value added will be making the most of their less able children.
Some schools I've looked at do publicise their value added but others don't. How can I find it out? Will I specifically have to ask?
Thanks.

OP posts:
Tansie · 08/05/2014 21:25

zero- you'll have to explain your post to me of 8.36. Why do we all have to wait for me to find 'advanced search'? I'm sorry, I don't have the faintest idea what you're talking about.

I said: "happy- with the best will in the world, many schools are trying to stop DC chucking chairs around, as it were.

I do think that by the very nature of being in a paid-for school, you have automatically shut out quite a lot of the sort of DC who certainly wouldn't benefit from 'Div'.

And few LEAs would support the channelling of cash towards such a relatively small group as those who would benefit from 'Div'. Maybe, with all due respect, if all you've known is the private sector, maybe you don't understand what state schools teach and why? And it's frankly absurd to compare WC DSs with the great mass of state school DC."

And your retort was: "OP (While the world waits for Tansie to discover Advanced Search...) it's worth repeating that you're looking for the wrong thing."

Hmm
TalkinPeace · 08/05/2014 21:28

Tansie
Happygardening has one son at Winchester and one at a high achieving state school so she DOES know about both systems,
but does not seem to 'get' those whose brains are closed to new thoughts;
those who only attend because they have to

happygardening · 08/05/2014 22:10

It's not that I don't "get" those whose brains are closed to new thought, I accept they're out there I just hope that it's not a permanent state of affairs or that we can prevent more of our children joining their ranks.
God know why I think this, 30 years of abuse in the public sector has turned me into a died in the wool cynic so maybe I should give up and accept that many are happy with brains closed to new thought. Best of luck to them I suppose.

Martorana · 08/05/2014 22:23

Having one child at a top public school and one at a high archiving state school does not mean having an understanding of both sectors. Ther is as much difference between Winchester and Miss Joyful's School For Girls with the nice hats and the deportment lessons as there is between Judd and Bash Street Academy.

grovel · 08/05/2014 22:29

No, HG, don't give up. You know a lot and share it. I sometimes don't agree with you but always think you're worth reading.

TalkinPeace · 08/05/2014 22:31

We need HG as Xenia has gone to ground again I think Grin

grovel · 08/05/2014 22:33

HG is nothing like Xenia.

Martorana · 08/05/2014 22:46

Jesus- don't equate HG and Xenia! HG has useful and interesting things to say, despite her unaccountable blind spots. Xenia, on the other hand.........

ZeroSomeGameThingy · 08/05/2014 22:59

Tansie Last year I name-changed about twenty times after letting my tongue run away with me, so I'm happy to apologise for my morning sharpness...

Going around "top" independent schools over the past few years I can honestly say that not one of them ever mentioned VA and we had no such concept in our minds. What we wanted was a school that would uphold the "values" we already held. (And my plans are all about using a brilliant education to subvert the established order...)

happygardening · 08/05/2014 23:09

Thank you Grovel.
Martorana I do have lots of experience also of Bash Street Academy and Miss Joyful's School for girls many of the children I work with are at both and I've sat in lessons of both and talk to teachers from both.

happygardening · 08/05/2014 23:10

"Unaccountable blind spots"
Don't we all have them? That's what makes MN so interesting.

HmmAnOxfordComma · 08/05/2014 23:13

I was just about to post that, HG. One or two, we're all allowed, surely?

And I think 'She's not Xenia' should possibly be in the dictionary as a definition of a backhanded compliment Grin

happygardening · 08/05/2014 23:17

God I'd rather be like anyone but Xenia if I start spouting her views I need an urgent CT because I've got a personality altering space occupying lesion.

HmmAnOxfordComma · 08/05/2014 23:19
Grin
Tansie · 09/05/2014 07:57

I confess I miss Xenia and her uncompromising views on education! She was actually quite courageous in many views she held but she was very willing to defend them! Grin

I accept your apology, zero but I still don't quite get why I should use advanced search!

Anyway, it doesn't matter! But I genuinely do feel that the style of education available to hand selected, hyper clever, even 'oddball' DC that suits them down to the ground shouldn't be touted as the blueprint for all other DC's education. There is still quite a lot of choice available to state parents (among which lies 'a scholarship') if the parents are prepared to do the research and even move house and so forth to access it. There was a big debate on here recently about lotteries and fair banding to decide secondary allocation. The somewhat obvious outcome was that those who for whatever reason had failed to secure the school of their choice wanted lotteries; those who'd moved heaven and earth to get their DC into their school of choice wanted to retain that small ability to do so!

Before I'm flamed for 'oddball' I am using the term someone I work closely with did about her WC DC and their mates, only a few days ago!

Back to VA- well, in some ways, I can see that in the same way that Div (i.e. no GCSEs in Eng Lit/History/RE) only works in schools where the Name alone guarantees those DC have already been anointed as being 'above the general morass' thus won't be measured by the same measures that The Rest of Us will be; VA, like BMI, is a useful but limited measure of how a school's bringing its pupils on.

There will absolutely be no doubt quite a few second rate privates that make a show of airily brushing aside vulgar talk such as VA rather than confess either a) they add little to what came before or b) they select clever DC and eject clever DC with a large clutch of high graded GCSEs; which is what many parents want. It's certainly what my DC's state school does, one of many reasons why we chose it (though ours has an oddly high VA to boot I discovered).

Also I believe VA has been messed around with in the same way the Outstanding has been. Once they were maybe a useful measure, where you'd see what was known to be 'a good school' having an Outstanding OFSTED; but now I know of schools with it that frankly no local parent who gives a flying about their DC's education would dream of sending a DC to- the 'measurement tool' is no longer fit-for-purpose.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 09/05/2014 08:44

It might be some comfort to know that there are a couple of newish posters with very similar views and experience to Xenia, for those who are missing that debate.

rabbitstew · 09/05/2014 08:55

ZeroSomeGameThingy - the problem with using a "brilliant" education to subvert the established order is that the established order use the same education and once you are in it, it just all seems so lovely to be part of it that you lose the will to want to change it.

rabbitstew · 09/05/2014 08:57

And you can't control your dc - you may want him to subvert the established order, he might decide he doesn't want to diss his mates. Grin

AmberTheCat · 09/05/2014 09:24

I love the sound of Div - I think anything that encourages children (or adults, for that matter), to make connections, see patterns, apply ways of thinking in different contexts etc. has got to be a good thing. The thing I remember most fondly about my own secondary school days was a discussion group run by our fantastic head for interested sixth formers. We talked about anything and everything, he challenged our prejudices and taught us how to see beyond the obvious. Brilliant.

vindscreenviper · 09/05/2014 10:12

Yesterday Gove mooted the idea that Ofsted should inspect all private schools too, I'm not sure if he's being totally serious ( it's not that long ago that he didn't want Academies and Free Schools accountable to Ofsted) or just deflecting attention from the PAC criticism of the DfE annual accounts in general, and Free School funding in particular.
I am considering private senior school for my DC, in part to get them away from the influence of Gove and Wilshaw, guess I'll just have to move to Scotland next year Grin

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/michael-gove-let-ofsted-inspect-private-schools-too-9340673.html

happygardening · 09/05/2014 16:15

Why should ofstead inspect independent (there's a clue there) schools? Most are already inspected by the ISI anyway. It's our money surely we can choose to spend it on what we want. If we choose to send our DC's to a crap off the wall independent school that as parents is our choice.
Ofstead used to inspect boarding but about ?five years ago they asked the ISI to do it.
What I love about my DS's school is that it does what it wants, no government interference.

TalkinPeace · 09/05/2014 17:24

To clarify :
I enjoy HGs posts. She winds me up sometimes but never insults all and sundry.

Xenia was posting very recently under one of her new names. Bless her she outs herself SO quickly each time.

and FWIW : I'd love my kids to get the chance to do 'Div' - but one of them is a girl and I'm not loaded Grin

Martorana · 09/05/2014 17:38

Isn't Div really the sort of thing that happens over the dinner table in the houses of mumsnetters who post on threads like this? Or is everybody too busy working all the hours god sends to pay the fees to send their kids to the sort of school that does it for them? Grin

TheWordFactory · 09/05/2014 18:10

Well I don't know about you martorana but in Casa Wordfactory we don't tend to chat about the French revolution over dinner Grin. Or Plato. Nor do we analyse Faustus...

We tend to discuss who is going to win Master Chef, which teacher needs to get over themself and who we would buy to shore up Liverpool's defence Wink...

TalkinPeace · 09/05/2014 18:15

Eurovision / Billiards / High voltage electricity / cultivation of carnivorous plants / high scores on 2048 / irritating teachers
= Div in the Tip household Smile