Value added scores for independent schools

[papalazaru]

Is there a way to find these scores? I'm looking at different schools for my daughter who is currently in Year 5. When comparing the schools using GCSE results obviously you can rank them but if a school is highly selective with its intake then it follows that their results will reflect this. However, a school with a good value added will be making the most of their less able children.
Some schools I've looked at do publicise their value added but others don't. How can I find it out? Will I specifically have to ask?
Thanks.

Yes, but Slipshodsibyl, can you not already hear the irate parents clamouring at the schools' doors, asking why their children must be exposed to such things? Or is it just on mumsnet that we hear these complaints?!

ZeroSomeGameThingy - yes, I would agree that an educated, intelligent person would be able to make links. However, there is considerable disagreement as to the point at which people should be able to make such links, and whether they should have a firm grounding in Western European art history, Western European music, Christianity, British history, Latin, etc, first, or whether they can leap straight in there and be taught skills without certain universally agreed background knowledge. A good knowledge of the history of Christianity in this country, and of the Bible, for example, are most useful in understanding Western European art. Not hugely useful in helping with Indian art, or Islamic art, of course, although if you know one well, you at least have a firm foundation from which to make links with another.

Without seeing the syllabus Rabbit I can't say for sure whether parents are justified in being irate but often, lack of communication/ understanding fuels these rows.

Re your next post If our background knowledge has to be that good before starting to learn to make links there is no hope for most of us, is there?

Isn't that one of the debates between Michael Gove and teachers at the moment? ie how knowledge and skills intertwine, and whether there is currently sufficient emphasis on retained knowledge from which to make links and build skills?

GCSE's are school leaving exams but where is the evidence that employers as part of a "certificate of competency" need children to have 12? Those who have 12 and are not planning to do A levels are also likely to have lower grades and therefore really would benefit from doing less and getting higher grades in the ones they do. Perhaps they would also benefit from the time freed up by doing less to participate in other things that are non examined I don't accept that drama music and sport has to be examined. Win Coll offer neither sport (unsurpsingly ) or drama at IGCSE or Pre U but both thrive within the school.
I'm not holding a Win Coll up as the perfect model by any stretch of the imagination I'm trying to say that added value can come in lots of ways that are not easily measured.
Perhaps it's parents that need "educating" as much as governments teachers and employers.

Yes, but the experience of sport, music and drama at Backwater comp are not likely to be the same as sport, music and drama at Winchester. And the minute parents start to complain about the quality of their children's experience, or lots of fat, unhealthy children start coming out of school the other end, the Government starts weighing and measuring everything to see what's going wrong, and this then becomes part of the problem, because everyone loses interest in the unmeasurable bits. Everything seems to be weighed and measured these days with a view to the bottom line (another measurable thing) and nobody wants to admit that quality of life is pretty sh*te, particularly for our children who are being fattened up ready for the economic sausage machine, if that's all you're bothered about.

Rabbit your posts are (as always) interesting. I recently commented on another thread on the enormous difference between what a handful of top independent schools offer (not once have I said it was fair) and the rest be they state or independent and half of MN were queuing up to tell me I didn't know what I was talking about. Reeling off the wonderful opportunities their state/independent school offers.
Whilst are government and indeed parents, patients, clients, relatives feel that things like education health care, social care etc need to be tightly measured to ensure the necessary standards are being maintained and let's not forget funded then these things will always be narrow and prescriptive and the best in their particular fields will feel disillusioned and their thinking out of the box ability will be stifled. So perhaps it's better if we don't encourage our DC's to have a broad mind expanding education because it's likely that their work won't want people who can think slightly differently.
Re the taking of far too many GCSE's many years ago my DH employed a boy with 14 GCSE's nearly all grade B or above, he was the doziest muppet you could ever meet, devoid of life skills, stamina, creative skills, initiative, interest and culture (he'd only ever read 1 book), he described Venice as "that place with the water" I don't accept this is what employers want. A few less GCSE'sand few more life skills however acquired are what employers want in the 21st century.

"I recently commented on another thread on the enormous difference between what a handful of top independent schools offer (not once have I said it was fair) and the rest be they state or independent and half of MN were queuing up to tell me I didn't know what I was talking about. Reeling off the wonderful opportunities their state/independent school offers. "

Happygardening- you are always saying this- and I really think you must have misunderstood. Of course the opportunities, both tangible and intangible, and facilities at the top public schools are fantastic. Why else would people pay the extraordinary sums of money they cost?

You may agree with me Martorana but a surprising number don't as Im sure you well know.
Anyway my point is that much of value added is unmeasurable and it's a crude measurement and encourages governments teachers parents to focus on a very narrow meaning of the word education.

I am absolutely certain that nobody ever said that any state school could offer the same range of extracurricular activities as a top 5 public school.

Ok Martorama your right no one has ever said that.

If you don't want to engage then that's up to you. But it's a shame. What you say is interesting.

Didn't the girl who tweeted "our president barraco barner" have 17 GCSEs?

martorana posters say that all the time...

You get people queing up to say private school is a waste of money because their state school offers X, Y or Z too.

Or you get people telling you that what your school offers is dire and they most certainly do not want what it offers. Again you've wasted your money.

MN seems keen as a group to watch my purse for me ...

I think quite often private school is a waste of money. There are huge numbers of private schools that exist solely because people are terrified of the state system, and like a pretty uniform - particularly at primary level. There are two like that within a couple of miles of my house. But there are also huge numbers that aren't. And I just can't believe that anyone ever told HG that the state could offer what Winchester can-what with the fees being eyewatering an' all.

I see some posters saying that other posters 'queue up' to talk about wasting money quite a lot. I might almost say they queue up to do so.

Lots of private schools have lovely grounds and nice buildings and observatories and stuff. Clearly!

And I know of plenty of state schools who have much nicer grounds and buildings and far better facilities than ds's independent school.

I still believe he is getting a better education where he is (and dh and I have direct experience of working in four of them).

"still believe he is getting a better education where he is"

That doesn't mean that private schools are better than state schools. It means that that particular private school is better than the particular state schools you have experience of.

martorana you can't possibly say what is or isn't a waste of money. Value is entirely subjective.

Of course. I never said otherwise.

It was a comment on the idea that other parents (private or state) might be swayed by buildings and facilities, but we weren't. That's all.

but to get back to the point

"Value Added" is really a box ticking exercise for beating state school teachers over the head in the league tables.

It is so dependent on the incoming cohort and open to 'adjustment'
that really the best thing a parent can do is find a school that gives them and their kids a good 'vibe'
and then support their child as much as possible to broaden their mind and deepen their understanding.

If that school happens to be paid out of taxes or after tax income is a factor for so few people as to be only really a discussion point on Mumsnet.

"If you don't want to engage then that p's up to you. But it's a shame. What you say is interesting"
Are you taking the piss or have I missed something here?

Why would I be taking the piss? You do say interesting things- apart from this idee fixe you have that mumsnetters all think that Bash Street Comprehensive can offer all that Winchester can.....Which is, to be honest, a bit boring. And insulting to our intelligence.

Ok sorry if I misunderstood you .