what does it mean when a school says 'all applicants were offered places?'

[MySoreBack]

Hi, this question has probably been asked before but I realise I've never known the answer. When a secondary school says all applicants were offered places at their school for Year 7, does that mean even those who put the school as, say, 6th choice, or does it just mean as a 1st choice?

I would say it would be all first choices, plus all second choices where the first choice was full, and so on. So every applicant that they looked at.

I have no factual basis for that opinion though!

I think she gets that, tiggytape?

I suspect the former - as the school isn't told whether the applicants put them first, 2nd, 6th or whatever. And as the shakedown of second round and subsequent offers hasn't happened yet, if they're saying it now about this round, then it must mean all applicants.

Cross post.

Thank you all. Well, I didn't know that schools weren't aware whether you put them first or second, so that's useful to know. I'm new to this - daughter is in Yr 4 so at early stage of research and a lot to get my head round. Our first choice at this point looks a bit unlikely (too far away); second choice was an example of 'all applicants got a place' - so it sounds like to put them 2nd would be ok (we are pretty close to the school) and possibility of 1st choice on waiting list maybe?

Thanks Tiggytape - that is so helpful.

One more question, if you asked an oversubscribed school how many kids got in on waiting lists last year would they willingly divulge this information (presumably they don't have to)?

They have to divulge that information in response to an FoI request if they won't tell you any other way. They obviously can't identify the children involved but nothing wrong with stating the number. Remember, however, that the number can vary hugely from year to year. There may be lots of movement one year but none at all the next.

But- I still don't quite get it. A friend's DD passed her (Wiltshire) 11+ so put the GS 1st on her application form, but wasn't offered a place as she lived too far away, thus other, closer DCs did get in (the 11+ is pass/fail). The document says:

here

"Year SEN 1 2 3 4 5 Total
2011 Every girl of grammar school ability offered a place 125
2012 Every girl of grammar school ability offered a place 121
2013 Every girl of grammar school ability offered a place 127"

I cannot believe that to be the case! The school has no actual catchment, every year parents strive to get DDs in from miles around! Surely they can't all be successful?

OOI- where do they publish the information about how far away the most distant DC lived who got in? I have seen it somewhere. I am trying to help another friend who lives some distance from the GS but wants to see if there's any hope, based on trends, of her DD getting in.

Another possibility is that some of those who qualify don't name it as first choice and get into higher choices.

I did wonder whether the school meant that they admitted up to their PAN and that every pupil who was offered a place, accepted the place. But then if they only admitted 125, 121 and 127 against a PAN of 128 then they must have only been admitting those pupils who met the required standard in the test.
That level of admission does however go completely against what the article says that Tiggytape posted, in that it is saying that they have more than 128 passing the test.
There is then if delve into the actual school website a some what stunning statement that
"The school’s published admission number is 128 in Year 7. The school is able to accommodate more pupils in Years 9, 10 and 11 when the forms are split into five tutor groups and taught in option sets. The maximum admission number for Year 9, 10 and 11 is 135. In the Sixth Form the
school can accommodate 80 external admissions."
That completely destroys any suggestion that 128 is the maximum they can take in year 7

erebus is that one of the grammar tests where the " pass" mark depends on how bright the year group is- ie we take the to 127 or what ever ?

I would interpret "all applicants were offered places" as "this is a school where kids don't actually fight to apply" it is maybe everyones 6th choice?

prh47bridge - it'd be my belief that every single parent of a 'pass' DD lists SWGS as their 1st choice! As this would be the only 11+ they've tutored for, Prep schooled for. There's no cheap or 'free' alternative in Salisbury or its environs. The alternatives are private Godolphin (£ £), private religious The Swan- or miles away. Or what is, effectively SM education -though the girls' SM (St Eddies) is considered very good.

My friend's DD definitely 'passed' thus put SWGS as 1st on the preferences form (the 11+ is taken in time to allow parents to do just that). She had a letter saying as much.

Theas SWGS is very 'sought after' it's a biggie in the national league tables. No one puts it 6th!

I do larf at "Year 7 could move to a 5 form entry with class sizes of 30." Hardly revolutionary: It was a 5 form entry when I went there in 1973!

So- we still don't get it!

And sorry, should have added, Theas, the 11+ is pass/fail, so they then start taking according to geographical proximity (I don't think there's a sibling priority or similar).

Erebus - You would be surprised how many parents still think that they won't get their local school if they don't make it their first choice. They worry about missing out on both the grammar school and the local school so they name the local school first then wonder why they didn't get a grammar school place.

I would entirely agree, prh but I genuinely believe that the sort of parents who puts their DD up for what is really a 'super-selective' (no catchment, no 'free' alternative), have either paid for tutoring, done the tutoring themselves or prep-schooled their DD thus will know exactly what they're doing in Salisbury.

Check out Salisbury Waitrose. You have to carry a box of Band-aids, the elbows are so sharp

I'm sure you do. But I have advised a few parents in Salisbury who didn't get their daughters into SWGS because they made it their second choice for exactly the reasons I have given. A lot of otherwise well informed parents still seem to have very odd ideas about how school admissions work.

That's interesting- so maybe my friend's DD will actually be the only one who wasn't offered a place for the first time in 4 years!