The big Eton, Harrow, Radley, Winchester question...

[TinkerBellThree]

I have been reading a lot of threads on this site and found it hugely informative (and sometimes quite amusing). I hope you don't mind me picking your brain as I find that I am increasingly confusing myself.

Our DS is in year 5 and we have started to visit senior schools for him.
We have seen Radley, Harrow, Eton and Winchester, and been to a few co-ed schools as well, but have decided that single sex is probably more right for DS.

DS is quite academic (though I tend to believe he is not as much so as his school tells me he is), sporty and very competitive. He is very social and he loves to try out new things.

Our DS' Prep is adamant that he is made for Eton and Eton is made for him, and I must admit we loved the school when we visited, so we have put his name down there. However, it is exceedingly hard to get into and I am not counting my chickens (and I think the likelihood of a place is slimmer than slim) so I believe we need (several) back-up(s) - so here is where I am getting confused...

Radley (who I understand is a "normal" backup for Eton) is not encouraged by our DS' school (not sure why) and Harrow worries me a little with its reputation of not being very challenging academically (has this changed?).

Originally we ruled out Winchester as it was not "sporty" enough, but having been to visit, we have had to re-think as we found there were lots of opportunities for our DS to do sports. Our DS' Prep think it should be on our list - but is a boy so "suited" for Eton really suited for WinCol?

All the above schools are within easy reach of where we live, so we will have ample opportunity to see matches etc.

Where should we put DS' name down? For all the schools on our list + some (as he may not get into any of the above)? Or should we be more focused?

I know a lot of you have vast amounts of experience and possibly been through the same conundrum yourself, and I would really very much appreciate your input.

You can process the statistics in various ways too. We tend to score schools positively on number of orchestras and swimming pools and negatively on the number of rugby pitches.

Totally agree Roguedad. The number of polo pitches is also a good benchmark to use too.

I remain unconvinced that choosing a boarding school by the number of rugby pitches football teams or the size of it's rowing lake or swimming pool is the best way. IMO it all seems rather shallow. I guess if your DS is a fanatical and talented rower or rugby player it matter but if not there is so many more important things to consider when making ones choice.

I think you will find that my comment re polo pitches was somewhat sarcastic... It's obviously far more important to consider the accessability of the school by private helicopter. We strangely looked at the school through the eyes of our DS and chose the school that best suited him and since H are world renowned for producing business leaders, we went that route. Apparently many OEs end up working for OHs and they all seem to get on well...

I agree Quiosegagne look at the school through the eyes of your child and work out how you hope he'll turn out and try and find a school which will best work with you to facilitate this.
Personally I'm not looking for a school that produces world renowned business leaders who often have OE working for them but that the advantage of paying you have freedom to try and find the right school for you and up your DC.
Don't worry Quisegagne your sarcasm wasn't lost on me.

Old boys can be a great source of information, if you know any who are still young enough to remember current teachers and HMs. DH knew a Wykhamist in his early 20s through a family connection and he helped point us to a couple of HMs at Wincoll. One was a really good fit for DS, who came home looking so happy after pretest subsequent exams that it was an easy decision.

Interestingly, senior teacher at Radley (which was DS' previous HM's suggestion) had completely the opposite effect on all of us. I remember looking at DS sitting hunched up on a sofa in his room (he'd been told to sit there) and both of us feeling utterly miserable. Then the aforesaid senior teacher tried to convince us it was the right school for DS on the grounds that the Duke of Wherever had selected it for his son. That was a complete miscalculation and made us press much harder for academic info. It wasn't for us. We had been really keen before that meeting, so it just goes to show that no matter what you find out in advance, meeting the people there can change everything very quickly.

Well said happygardening. I think you have put it well. I have to admit though, the business leader point, which not incorrect, was a little cheeky effort to see if I could draw Petereras out to provide some light hearted banter on H vs E, always a giggle 😉

I can highly recommend Charterhouse for incredible pastoral care and genuine compassion. Lack of cliqueyness and snobbishness too.

How many rugby pitches, polo pitches and Olympic size swimming pools at Charterhouse? It is important to establish the key facts. Also have they produced anyone of note recently? I had a friend at Oxford from Charterhouse who went on to become a business leader but that was some time ago.

beautifulvisit your old thread made me LOLOL

I presume and hope Winchester has changed in the last 25 years. I know several men who went there and the majority are royal fuck ups. One was sexually assaulted on a fairly regular basis by another boy. And beaten if you didn't learn the stupid alternative language. Just reading the name of the school makes me shudder.

Spot on hertsandessex, these metrics are surely the key facts for choosing your DS's next school. All this commentary to do with academic opportunities etc etc just muddies the water! Being serious for a moment though ,we have a boy who is a good all rounder ie streamed classes at prep - not academic scholarship (too lazy) material, county sportsman in 2 sports incl rugby and enjoys boarding so we found H was the best fit.

My brother went to public school 25-30 years ago (admittedly a minor one) and was bullied relentlessly. The school swept it under the carpet. It's done him lasting harm. What's with this English public school fetishism? I find it bizarre.

Dear whataboutbob,

30 years ago the Berlin Wall was still standing and people in the eastern part of Germany would inconveniently get shot if they wanted to head west, its not quite so dangerous today.... My point being that things change, they evolve, usually for the better with mistakes being learned from. I think you will find that is why the British boarding system is so popular and highly desired in the 21st century.....

OK qui ose, I defer to your knowledge and I certainly hope they have learnt from their mistakes.

Things have indeed approved but there does remain an element of public school fetishism that Whataboutbob mentions - not with everybody but with a significant element. My own children have boarded at different times but more out of necessity than desire and given the choice I would much rather they were at an excellent, relatively local day school, state or private.

I think you both raise a fundamental yet so overlooked point re boarding at whichever school -namely the boy in question must want to board in the first place. The reasons for this can be many however ultimately boarding does not suit many boys so this should not be dismissed for the sake of the wish of the parents. Our prep school has weekly boarding and this has been enjoyed for 2 years by our DS. In the absence of this we would not have gone the full boarding route but opted for weekly at one of the many excellent schools offering this.

”. . . and since H are world renowned for producing business leaders, we went that route.”

Harrow - ‘world renowned for producing business leaders’, really Quiosegagne?

Like for example, Peter Beckwith perhaps?

Funnily enough, I only came to hear about Peter Beckwith as a “business leader” when I first saw the Harrow scholarship program on TV a few years back. It’s more of a program about how recipients of that particular Harrow scholarship have to be made to degrade themselves as performing monkeys in an annual circus show at the school to kowtow to that “God” of a business leader for giving them a ‘chance to transform their lives’.

The fact of the matter is that the calibre of those boys who successfully won the Peter Beckwith scholarship would naturally see their lives transformed anyway - with or without Peter Beckwith! So, all this rubbish annual circus of kowtowing to the “business leader God” is quite uncalled for. Hope your son’s scholarship at Harrow is not that ghastly Peter Beckwith one, Qui. And I do mean it in a kind way!

If truth be known, I know of more business leaders in my patch of London who attended schools in remote villages in India and Bangladesh. So you don’t need to go to Harrow to become a “business leader”.

That’s not to mention real world business leaders the likes of Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg are educational establishment dropouts giving away billions without so much as expecting a “Thank You” from beneficiaries of their charitable foundations.

”Apparently many OEs end up working for OHs . . . I have to admit though, the business leader point, which not incorrect, was a little cheeky effort to see if I could draw Petereras out to provide some light hearted banter on H vs E, always a giggle . .”

Well, that may or may not be so, OEs end up working for OHs, but what’s for sure is that all alumni from any school you care to name, end up ultimately working under the direction of that OE at No. 10!

But anyway, leaving E apart, H would be the next best school in the list for a full-blooded dashing young teenage boy IMHO. Congratulations!

It is a mistake to assume abuse only takes place in boarding school my DH went to SPS he throughly enjoyed it but looking back he realises now some boys were sexually abused by the staff, he was taught by two staff who've recently been convicited, he says the school turned a blind eye to what was going on and the other boys at the time appeared to be naive. Most boarding and day school in both sectors and let's not forget other organisations where sexual has also occurred e.g. cubs brownies sports clubs church youth groups etc should have extensive safe guarding measures in place to try and stop this sort of thing happening again. Nothing is fool proof but staff/volunteers/parents and children themselves are significantly more informed and vigilant that they were 30+ years ago.

I agree with HappyGardening. My DB and DH both boarded at major public schools more than 25 years ago and emerged with happy memories and no negative emotional baggage. However it is obvious now that the environment at all types of schools was more permissive for bullying and staff with extreme eccentrities that in some cases progressed to abuse, sexual or other. Boarding schools were perhaps more isolated from the eye of the outside world but even so I have heard plenty of anecdotes from that era of eccentric staff behaviour in day and boarding schools that was regarded as often amusing by pupils but would not be acceptable now.

The public schools discussed here now have enforced high levels of safeguarding, are very well funded thereby providing a wealth of opportunities as well as an extensive network of friends (increased by time spent together through full boarding) and generally are able to recruit excellent teachers and management teams. On the downside these schools may lack contact with the real world but teachers make efforts to increase the awareness and social responsibilities of their pupils.

IMO the 'fetishism' for these full boarding public schools in the present day is mainly pragmatic; a high quality broad education which can only be best made use of by full boarding timetables.

a full-blooded dashing young teenage boy sounds like a phrase from the era of Rudyard Kipling's Stalky and Co. Hopefully Eton has moved on since.

I agree about how cringe-making the programme on Peter Beckwith was. Can't be bothered to watch it again, but I seem to remember there was a lunch and the boys all had to stand up in turn and say how grateful they were .

Elton John is another benefactor who has paid for many talented young musicians to get a first class musical education, he doesn't seem to need them to abase themselves thanking him for it though.

a high quality broad education which can only be best made use of by full boarding timetables.

I disagree.

hewl whatever your views on boarding generally and whether a DC would gain that bit of extra from going to one of these OP boarding schools, there is no doubt that the programme of education, choice of events, evening and weekend meetings etc etc that they provide cannot be fitted into even a weekly boarding schedule.

I too challenge any day school or a weekly/flexi boarding school to provide the depth and range of opportunities that a top full boarding school like those discussed on this thread can provides. As before on other threads I also challenge even a London based parent to organise the same high quality broad curriculum.
Best of all not boarding schools provide the same depth and range, some are more focused on sport, some provide a broad mix others focus more on the intellectual with less emphasis on sport. But regardless of the focus the depth and range would be exceedingly difficult if not impossible to replicate by a day school in either sector.