secondary education - not privates school choices

[dementedma]

Ok, so where can I find threads about secondary education that isn't an angst ridden should ds/dd go to this private school or that private school?
Ds attends local state school. Does anyone else on MN do this or is it just me?

pointythings - then your school must be slacking, big time. It really should try to remedy the lack of leafiness, by planting a few trees.

Good head, building the school up? Must get Gove onto her case. Can't have that!

Why should they plant trees when Thetford Forest is just across the way (if you cross a busy roundabout on the A11, but hey...) .

Actually the school went Academy last September following a big GCSE hit because of Gove's badger impression with the English grade boundaries, but there are no commercial companies involved and so far it seems to be really benign - and they are now putting more work into pushing the B/A/A* boundary kids and not just the C/D kids, which is great.

And it's a friendly school too, with great pastoral care and no tolerance for bullying. You're right, Volcan, Gove will be coming in...

Clearly pointythings - your school is one in the parallel universe - because it can't exist in the real world

(Actually, you're quite right, it sounds very similar to my old school, which is a good local school with a similar intake to yours, good range of subject choices and extra curricular activities, good pastoral care, effective and committed senior management. It qualifies as 'leafy' because it's on the edge of the Peak District, so the setting is attractive so we have to take a few points off for that!)

I obviously live in the parallel universe too, because I have a job I love, a great boss and lovely supportive colleagues and a leafy base of operations (posh part of Cambridge, genuine leaves with hot and cold running squirrels) where you can actually park.

Now to get DH moved into my universe job-wise...

I don't click Daily Mail links - should it matter that a judge's children went to private school? Parents that earn the very most will often choose private. Anyway, I accept that the council have underinvested and that clearly the catholic school was at best and very tenously misguided. What about the blame that ought to be laid at the parent's doors? Are you going to gloss over that and continue to say that it's entirely the fault of one side of the problem?

Just re-visited this thread as I saw the number of comments had risen a fair old bit and was hoping to read some good stuff about secondary schooling...... Unbelievable. I'm a state educated mum with a state educated husband and state educated kids with a DD whose needs won't be met anywhere near as well by our good local comprehensive school (I have absolutely nothing against it) as by a private school we also applied for. Our DS would cope very well with it, but our DD is a different kettle of fish altogether. Any money we have to pay for the luxury of choice has been earned by hard work over the years in jobs we got through our good state education. I'm not from a rich London based background and don't identify with that particular group of mums and yes, there are worlds within worlds BUT: not one thread that I have read in the private school items has a pop at mums from another background. I doubt after state school offers come out on 3rd March that they'll all be complaining about the sudden glut of state school threads with snide comments about those mums' backgrounds. I'm new to mumsnet and it may prove to be a short stay. I thought the header of this section was "Secondary Education" and not "Snobbery" (It works both ways, as Agapanthers points out). Knock yourselves out, ladies..... ;)

fourcornered Lord True isn't a judge. He is the leader of Richmond Council, the man whose legacy project the Catholic School was. Three line whip, no Conservative Counsellors were allowed to dissent, though some did off the record.

At the Opening mass the Archbishop, now Cardinal, thanked him by name, not the Council, not even the Head of Education, who happens to be a former Benedictine monk. So yes his choices and interests do matter. Do you really think that he cares about Twickenham Academy? To be fair to the Head of Education I do believe he does actually care and pursued a course that would get them the investment they needed but full well knowing that it meant the Whitton end of Twickenham had access only to a school conducting an educational experiment.

As I said before it is great that RPA now has a local school that parents can have confidence in, but blame parents for not wanting to be part of an untried experimental educational approach at TA and HA (though at least the senior leadership team at HA have shown flexibility in adapting the approach to their cohort)? No. You do realise don't you that whereas at the partnership outstanding / good Academies you get an offer of over 19 A levels in sixth form. At TA you get a choice of 7 with no MFL......

I didn't want this to turn into a bun fight over state vs private. I am a state educated teacher working in a state school. My husband went through prep and public school. Whether you choose to send your child to an independent school or a state school if ultimately your choice however, it doesn't mean that it gives you the right to criticise 'the other side'. I'm sorry if my posts came across that way - I'm lucky to live and work in an area that has a good mixture of schools with a reasonable opportunity of getting in to the one that's wanted (just like the vast majority of people in England). I do retain the opinion though that it's ok to find the way that other people do things odd - such as discussing on an open forum who could be the next possible head teacher for a school. I can't think of any parents, or teachers, that I have every met in the state system that wouldn't find this odd. It's not snobbery as much as experience.

shooting I just want to make my point again about supply and demand. If they offer seven A levels it's because that's what the students/parents (that are actually there) want. Complaining about it from the outside will make no difference. Removing your children from the system will not force change. It will preserve the status quo. Also, if you remove your children from said system you ought to remove yourself from the political arguing as you put yourself in a similar position to Lord True - pontificating on policies that ultimately have no affect on your life. Also, i'd just like to point out that free school's are just as much an experiment as HA.

I'm lucky to live and work in an area that has a good mixture of schools with a reasonable opportunity of getting in to the one that's wanted (just like the vast majority of people in England).

It's a statement worth repeating. Up and down the land there are good state schools doing a good job. You'd think from MN it was all private schools or Grammar Schools. You would never know that the vast majority of children are educated outside these systems and getting a decent education to boot.

I'm private school educated, work in state and my children are in state.

The reason there seems to be so much 'angst' (such a snidey word to use about parents who are worried about their children's education) is as follows (pull up a chair, short lecture to follow)...

I don't know about other areas but where I am the grammar schools take all the most academic children and the rest are in the other schools who then take those children on to fulfil their academic potential in varying degrees of success. The grammars (as much as any school can) seem to be able to provide 'guaranteed' academic success (so they should, they have the brightest children). So parents boil it down to Grammar =academic success, non-grammar = academic lottery. You don't have to point out the flaws in this argument to me but there you go, that's how it is. And so we all fuss and worry and tutor and disapprove and grumble about the system but we play the game because we are parents who want the best for our children and in the areas where there are grammar schools exist the best (defined purely by academic results) is grammar.

I'm sure this is all perfectly obvious but for those lucky buggers not in grammar school areas with good state school accessible, do count yourselves lucky. I see no reason though for anyone to be belittling the concerns of those who don't have it so straightforward - whether it be grammar or crap schools in their catchment area or private schools. There are those who have no 'good' schools within their catchment whose children will thrive and succeed and those whose children go to grammar and crumble under the pressure.

I have no interest at all in independent schools admissions, it's not for me but I understand completely why they are just another group of anxious parents, trying to pick the right school for their child. A lot of private schools are tough to get into so there's still a scramble for places as there is with state schools.

As a very wise woman said to me once: the only way to choose the right school for your child is with hindsight.

So endeth the sermon. Go in peace and educate your child into being a decent, kind and honest person, it's the best a lot of us can do.

fourcornered What rot! What social progress or challenge to vested interests would ever happen if the only people allowed to speak up were those directly affected? As it happens I absolutely do have a right to call the Council out on an education strategy that leaves hundreds of primary school parents, including me 17 years ago, without a place for their child every year. Many parents end up with only the choice of a distant school they cannot access, and in some cases they have left parents with no school place until after Christmas when they cobbled together a reception class in a church hall ten minutes walk from the main school. Now that is going to start happening at Secondary level as well, especially after establishing an exclusive school when there is a looming school place crisis (never mind issues of choice). I am guessing that you either do not live in the borough or have not bothered to acquaint yourself with the issues but I do know that an awful lot of parents, thousands in fact, are grateful that there is a focus for their dissatisfaction. And there will probably be a few hundred more in a few days time when the reality of their options becomes clear.

What is the definition of a leafy comp? Is there a list somewhere? Or are there different levels of leafiness?

Wow this thread degenerated fast.
Stripe I don't think it was common or garden concern for one's DCs education that was being satirized/pilloried.

You are right, on another quick read most of the scorn is reserved for private school parents who are 'angst ' ridden. As I have said I am are not going down that route but it doesn't mean that I should mock those who have and are on mn expressing their concerns. It's a good example of the rampant reverse snobbery on here.

I have also seen threads slating 'pushy' wannabe grammar school parents on mn, my rant applies to that too. Most of us, wherever we live, have concerns about our children's secondary education. Whether it be the suitability of one good school or another. I just hate the bashing people get for being a parent who wants the best for their child.

I do think that concerns about schools are also often not voiced to RL friends because their concerns may be different so MN is a good anonymous place to do it. I wonder if separate threads for independent schools and state might actually be a good idea? Not to sort those who can pay and those who can't but they are two completely different worlds with different time lines and rules. It would be like mixing the arts and crafts board with the baking threads. Bakers are not interested in hearing about the latest colour available in stylecraft DK and equally knitters may not care if someone's fondant won't set.

My son goes to rough local comp...Shock! Horror! He is studying for a levels now. Many friends have good offers for unis, including Oxford, Kings, Newcastle, Sheffield etc What's my point? I suppose that there are lots of hard working and extremely clever children AND teachers in bog standard schools too!

Most people in the UK don't live in London. Most people are not in grammar school areas. We just don't talk loudly enough about being happy with our lot. Comprehensive education is great. Where I live you can choose from 4 secondary schools and most people get into their first choice. All the schools are "good" and all have mixed demographics. All of them get a few kids into Oxbridge, many more into Russell Group and significant numbers into apprenticeships and FE. I have been amazed by the quality of education my DCs have had compared to my experience at grammar school in the 70s-80s.

A representative of the Sutton Trust has just been on BBC Breakfast (talking about fair banding) and he mentioned that the top performing 500 comprehensives all have low proxy measures for deprivation.

Even in comprehensive areas, the schools may well not have representative intakes. Riversidemum's experience isn't the norm. But what might make it so?

Since only about 7% of children go to private schools, there are only 164 grammar schools left in England and a tiny, tiny minority HE, about 90% go through state school comprehensives!
Even on MN the majority go to the local state school.
According to an article in the Times this week the middle classes are being priced out of private education- therefore even more will use state schools.

My area is like RiversideMums- my children have done very well from it- as have all my friend's children.

I think actually, stripes and others, if you read again, again, the posts are not targeting children who go to private school, or even really the parents who send them there: they are almost all about things which have been said about comprehensives and the children who go to them, and parodies of those posts.

It is, I guess, a thread about a lot of threads.

I think you are much more like to see posters simply saying that a good school isn't available to them in their area rather than denying that they exist or promoting stereotypes.

I've mentioned our situation before but it doesn't seem to be that common. Ds, a delightful but very different child, with quirks that mark him out as autistic to even the most casual observer is at an independent secondary school.

The decision to send him there, for the best chance of happiness and safety, was not informed by me being unhappy, scared and bullied for being clever at my own very average comp, although I was. It was informed by the fact that dh and I currently/recently have worked in 3 of our local schools (a range of 'types') and were not in any way confident that ds would be safe and happy in any of them.

That's not ill-informed angst from pfb parents worried about their 'sensitive' child, it's our informed reality.

So many people with a chip on their shoulder, all on one thread!

I thought MN was full of "motivated" parent of all (both) political persuasions. State vs Private is just one axis containing all motivated parents.

Find me a MN poster that isn't "motivated" (whatever than means).

I don't fully know whether Riversidemum's experience isn't the norm, certainly if you exclude the Greater London area. I could almost have written her post myself except that our choice is from 3 comprehensives. These schools won't appear in the top 500 because they are taking a fair band of ability by and large, but it doesn't mean that they are failing to give the children there a good education.

I too think that my children got a better education than either DH or I did at our grammar schools, which seemed to be quite long on pretence and only so-so on academic results.

My particular bugbear is the people who dismiss a school as not being 'good' when they have never set foot inside it to judge for themselves. There is often a time lag between the reputation of a school and how it really is. I sent DS to a primary school which I heard was 'tough', 'not sure my child could survive there', but in practice turned out to be an excellent, well run school. Meanwhile, the popular primary that people were fighting to get their children into was sliding into special measures.

I didn't say anyway was putting down children at private school

I think the OPs post is scornful of parents who are trying to decide about private schools.

I don't think I've read any of the other threads so I don't know about the other stuff. I'm on the 'waiting for secondary places' thread but that seems to be a mix of anxious parents waiting for news rather than anything else.