I'm just getting my head round Gove's changes to the exam system- and I am even mor horrified than I thought I would be!

[curlew]

The three things that leap out at me are 1)all year 11s have to do 8 GCSEs of which 5 have to be EBacc subjects, which will be a real struggle for many, 2) no more tiered papers, so one exam for all, so kids for whom a C is a real achievement have to sit a paper which has also to cater for the effortless A*, and 3)only the first attempt at an exam counts for the league tables. This means for a school like ours, where the vast majority of students are middle/low ability, and where we have always let many have a "practice go" early, won't be able to- because the risk to the school is too great.

By the way, I have a man working in my house right now building me a bathroom and he has no A levels or degree but has a City & Guilds in advanced carpentry and joinery. He is doing a fantastic job and just told me he has not been without work since 1986 despite the recession.

its not all about GCSEs and levels. They are useful for some and for others who are good at practical skills they can have a great career - just not academic. We don't have to dumb down and con kids into taking university courses. We should help and direct and train to maximise the value that people can bring with their aptitudes and skills.

I'll agree with you on that one MoreBeta. There is more to life than academics. We should be enabling our children to become successful adults where ever their skills lie. GCSEs are a measure of a very narrow range of skills.

Also, re: comparing to other countries, for better or worse, gcse is the last exam that many people will take in a subject (need to show basic level of competence), the last public exam taken before getting a university offer and the exam that leads towards specialisation at a-level.

It's a lot to ask from one exam.

In England there has been comprehensive education up to the end of Y9 (more or less). After that exam syllabi quick in and all DC have not been doing the same curriculum.

France has comprehensive education unt the end of Y10 (same programme for everyone).

we'll let Gove move to France then. That will make everybody happy.

Does anybody know where BTECs and apprenticeships fit into all of this?

as far as Gove is concerned they do not exist

as far as Gove is concerned they do not exist

Not true. Gove has reduced the number of BTECs that count in the GCSE tables. From this year only 70 equivalents will count. Previously you could do a course on horse care, for example, that would count as four GCSEs and there were courses in fish husbandry and nail technology services that counted as two GCSEs. This change followed a study by Professor Alison Wolf that suggested schools were teaching qualifications that attracted most points in the league tables leading to students getting qualifications that did not help them into work or higher education.

Apprenticeships are not Gove's responsibility. They fall under Cable.

Apprenticeships are not Gove's responsibility. They fall under Cable.
Small mercies!

Perhaps you could have two Education secretary's. One who acts for the A* kids ( GOVE WOULD WANT TO BE THAT ONE) The other one has responsibility for the "Thick" ones. a two tiered education system .

Interestingly, depending on your employer, you can become a fully qualified accountant with no GCSE's (assuming you have done the ATT exams, which I think are now linked to apprenticeships).

AAT rather than ATT (ATT is tax)
but yes, that was always the case - articled clerks

I meant AAT - ATT would be tax, but I think they are both linked to apprenticeships.

x posted

"This now becomes really scary. If people equate bottom 20% with SEN, then it is so clear why there is this wide-spread acceptance."

Keep'em down...

Horticulture- which has always been an important part of our school doesn't count. Neither does car mechanics.

Bonsoir
You dislike the fact hat I have connected SEN with academic ability
however the data backs me up
www.education.gov.uk/cgi-bin/schools/performance/group.pl?qtype=LA&superview=sec&view=cqs&set=1&sort=ks4_13.b8vamea_fsm&ord=desc&tab=33&no=886
Nationally 7.7% of pupils are Statemented or school action plus
In Kent it is 8.1%
and yet the percentage in the selective schools ranges from 5.8% down to 0.3%
man SEN aspects do affect learning - accept it and accept that schools will never get those children to get A*/A/B
and support the teachers in supporting the children - of all abilities

I know that options here bring some of that decision forward to the start of year 10 Bonsoir but for the actual core subjects at the schools I know the final decisions on which paper children should be entered for are not made until part way through year 11. so with both at roughly the same age their is some academic selection..

In many ways the systems are not too very different between France and the UK. Germany seems to be vastly different.

I'm not going to unravel your lack of logic, TalkinPeace, because you aren't capable of following .

You clearly have some bee in your bonnet about not expecting anything of large swathes of the population and seem to think that there will be jobs for the unskilled in the future when we already have a large underclass problem who are not work-ready for the world we live in.

grovel, not everybody took o levels though, they were aimed at the more academic children, most took CSE.

Bonsoir- no need to be rude, surely?

Just giving her a diluted taste of her own medicine

It is quite different: the whole of France follows the same curriculum and the same number of hours per subject, leading to the same exam at the end of Y10. There is barely any variation between schools (some might offer German and others Spanish for second foreign language). No setting or streaming.

This is my thread and I forbid anyone to be rude to anyone else.