Is it right to make our children study for GCSE'S?

[coolmom420]

I have a 15 year old daughter who is in year 11 and has exams coming up. My approach to parenting is quite laid back; I don't force her to do anything, and I make her feel happy and secure. I haven't ever pressured her into studying for exams in high school, as I feel that she is old enough to figure out what she wants to do herself. She is a smart girl, and does get good grades without studying, and I have told her that no matter what her GCSE grades are I will still love her, because grades aren't important to me. She also spends about 10 hours a day on the internet, on twitter, tumblr, and other sites. I never annoy her, I always let her do her own thing, as I am not that kind of parent. She never acts spoilt, and is a very well behaved girl.

I was just wondering what your attitudes to studying/homework and internet usage where? All ideas will be completely grateful. :-)

Just because you don't have GCSE's doesn't mean you won't do well in life

No, but I doubt anyone has lain on their death bed saying, "I wish I had less education".

Having a good set of GCSEs makes more options available than a poorer set.

Also, when I was involved in CV sifting for graduate jobs, we still looked at general O level/GCSE results as they gave an indication of overall breadth. (And to see whether geeky scientist could write coherant English).

I do dither a bit on this. On the one hand I think academic grades and subjects do matter (I'm an academic, I approve heartily of academic study, and I know that GCSE grades can matter a lot), but I also think that self-motivation is very important and I don't feel comfortable being too authoritarian with my secondary age children.

So far, dds are 13 and 12, I am quite strict on internet/tv usage (laptops go to sleep at 9pm, I turn the tv off if they are watching more than I am comfortable with), but once I'm happy they aren't just glued to a screen I tend to ignore their homework schedules.

13yo dd is rather chilled and does a bit of homework, enough to keep the teachers off her back, but she definitely does better if we get involved and help/hassle her. I vary on how much I feel we should hassle/nag/support etc.
12yo is very self-motivated and competitive and so far does all her homework very thoroughly so doesn't need any parental pressure.

If I had a dc who really didn't want to study I wouldn't force them, I would probably go on (tediously) about university and career options et, rather than arguing with them about homework constantly.

It's one thing to say that GCSEs are not necessary and don't contribute to being a rounded, intelligent, sensible human being. If you believe that you could home school according to your own ideas or send your child to a Montessori or Steiner school - as long as you show to your child that you are committed to and interested in learning, your child will probably benefit in some way.

But your attitude stinks, to be honest. Any child (and that includes teenagers) surfing for 10 hours a day has an addiction problem that needs urgent intervention.

There's laissez-faire and there's lazy. Your attitude is the latter.

With university entry, all many universities ask for is certain grades in English and maths (usually a C or a B). However, getting into university is a competitive process, and (all things being equal-ish) the candidate with 10 A*-C gcses is a much stronger candidate than the one with 5 C grades. Universities will take extenuating circumstances into account to an extent, but they will expect required subjects like English and maths to be retaken alongside A-levels if neccessary.

At the moment, good AS grades can help compensate for poor GCSEs at many universities (although some do still put more emphasis on GCSEs). However, as A-levels are changing, I believe soon students could be applying to university without any AS levels? In this case, GCSEs will become more important again, as they will be the only indication universities will have of prior performance.

I know university is not the be all and end all, but for a student capable of A/A* grades with little study, it is the likely goal.

That said, 10 hours a day of social media does not sound healthy at all.

I'm still waiting for the list of competitive courses one can get into without GCSEs......

I'm also rather surprised at the statement that you can be a teacher without any GCSEs. Basic requirements

I also wonder, 10 hours of excessive screen time and an apparent absence of parenting aside, if coolmom simply does not realise the reality of the job market and the future world her DD will be competing in. There was of course a time when 5 good O levels / GCSEs would access you a good job, now you need to be a graduate to work in a call centre.

It is this poverty of aspiration, not just in parents but in schools too, that accounts for the underrepresentation of bright students like OPs daughter from poor backgrounds (not assuming she is from a poor background, just experiencing the same poverty of aspiration) in elite unis. I wonder if coolmom's DD is in one of those comprehensives in leafy areas that OFSTED have highlighted as letting down pupils from poorer backgrounds? Obviously as long as she gets 5 good GCSEs it won't affect their statistics too badly (though she won't qualify for Ebbac as I recall). I can't imagine one of the inner London outstanding schools allowing her to coast and take only 5 GCSEs post London challenge for instance.

I have interviewed and accepted dc without any before now, its to do with their attitude to learning tbh.

But the OP is not doing anything to help her DD foster a healthy attitude to learning, so that doesn't really apply here, does it.

Just because you don't have GCSE's doesn't mean you won't do well in life
Everybody is so polite about this...

Does it really?

Learning is children's work, fulfillment of ones talents, preparation for life, development of values and ethics, life skills and habits. Exams offer young people the setting to test themselves, to overcome a challenge, to manage nerves, to set and achieve a goal, to measure themselves against others. Ultimately it develops their confidence that drives them to try and succeed in new challenges.

Whatever the excuses are, absence of good exam results does show absence of all those qualities. It provides evidence of:

• lack of talent - otherwise it would shine through
• failure to develop skills expected after secondary education
• poor judgement
• inability to prioritize the important things
• absence of work ethic and discipline
• absence of good habits, poor organisation
• inability to set and achieve goals
• inability to deliver the results set to you by others (i.e. 12 GCSEs or whatever the norm)

In short it shows the that the person is unemployable.

There isn't really any valid excuse. In our modern times of compulsory secondary education, Ofsted inspections, laws on child labour and means tested benefits there isn't any real reason in this country for young people not to study.

Finally, while some people in this country indulge in the idea of being a perfectly good and rounded person without achieving in secondary education, the young people in China, India and other countries waste absolutely no time and are getting ahead. Today's 15 years old might live until the year 3000 and will spend most of her working life in increasingly technological and globalised environment. In the next 10 years supermarket checkouts and McDonalds will probably be automated.

I believe the OP is a wind up, so I would add that the described values and parenting style will prepare the hypothetical young person for nothing else but the life on benefits, being a burden on all of us who are trying harder than what the OP describes.

Today's 15 years old might live until the year 3000

Neo-Methuselah? I don't think anyone is aspiring to live for 900+ years, do you?

I agree with most of the rest of what you say.

2100 of course, LOL,

I heard something interesting on the radio the other day. Can't remember where/when so can't link but...

You know we all think that Scandinavian children have the ideal childhood because it's not pressured and they delay schooling until later etc. So Scandi children are happy, top of the international League Table of Happiness. Well, apparently it's now coming out that the children might be happy but the young adults are not. They are starting to link the laissez-faire-ness in childhood with unhappiness in adulthood.

Wish I could link but my Google is playing up and doesn't seem to want to search.

Just because you don't have GCSE's doesn't mean you won't do well in life

Agreed because I'm sure we can all site shining examples of this. However, my guess, and I recognise this is just a guess, is that the majority of these people would have had a clear idea of where their skills and talents lay well before they reached adulthood. If your intention is to "do well in life" it makes sense to be working towards something.

I am the opposite sort of mum. My children's gadgets get handed in to me on a Sunday night and returned on Friday eve . On the other hand, I am the same as the OP (if she's genuine) in that my personal experience of education has strongly influenced my expectations for my children's education. OP, maybe this is something for you to consider?

And, in before someone corrects me I meant cite not site!

I wonder if the OP's daughter is telling her mom that's she's doing all the arsing around on social media, when really she's subterfuging and us actually secretly studying hard behind closed doors.

My lack of education has influenced that fact that I want my DDs to be educated, at least enough to get work with a good enough salary so that they can support themselves and their children without any help from anyone because that cannot be relied on.

I expect my DDs to manage their own workload and balance any study commitments with their social activities. And they do this very well. I've never needed to limit screen time or take away gadgets. DD1 got good GCSE results 3 A*s, 5 As, 3 Bs, and a C so I'm happy that my way is working for my children but if it wasn't then I would do things differently.

That's a good point Chaos because I don't know when my DDs are doing homework on their laptops or when they're playing around on facebook/twitter, etc. I just know that they do actually do their homework.

She's obviously bright and I feel thats all the more reason to make sure she paves the way for top A Levels by working quite hard at this stage.

She should go to Uni, and with the fees the way they are you might as well make it the best one you possibly can.

I do know of a really bright kid who flunked her AS's - even if they are bright it can go off the rails.

My kids think I am bonkers, but I am passionate about limiting screen time because I think its addictive and I use some software to do this. When they get to Uni they need to have a work ethic in place, not a case of internet distraction syndrome.

Ps. I just got distracted into going onto Mumsnet - drat!

If you take the panic out of the debate here about exams etc -- the OP is massively neglecting and failing her daughter on an emotional level - she must have zero interaction and therefore no relationship with her if 10 hrs after school are spent online.

If the OP said "two fingers" to education me and my daughter are having a ball we do loads of sports, visit galleries, cook together, work on our allotment, snuggle up on the sofa and are film buffs, are building a an online start up company, spend every evening rehearsing for a musical -- or running around practicing and competing in swimming, dance, judo - whatever - I would be jealous!

But this poor girl is abandoned emotionally and physically.

I doubt this kid exists tbh. I mean a 15 yo getting up at 6am voluntarily? Come on!!!!

Be prepared to mollycoddle your DD for the whole of her life OP.

Your child does not need you as a friend, she needs you to be a Mum.

Tell her the importance of education and hard work......without those two components you will pay the price OP.

I don't think the OP is molly coddling - or even being a friend - she is not in a relationship or communicating with her dauaghter