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Secondary education

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Original poster

To move at 11 or 13?

67 replies

Mumtogremlins · 30/12/2013 10:06

My DS has recently moved to a prep school in year 5. He's struggled to make friends and does generally find it hard to make friends quickly as he's a bit quirky. The school obviously want him to stay on until 13 but I think he would be better off moving at 11 as he could then start with all the other new children and not struggle to break into friendships at 13. The private schools do have an intake at 13 but less than at 11. We are also thinking of the local state school as that is ok.

I would like to leave him until 13 due to the benefits of keeping him in a 'cosier' environment but need to think what's best in the long run

Any opinions on what is best?

Thanks

OP posts:
monet3 · 30/12/2013 10:22

I would move at 11.

There are more after school and lunchtime clubs, bigger choice of friends, the curriculum is geared towards GCSE rather than common entrance, specialist teachers, its easier to get a place at 11 opposed to 13 there are so many benefits from moving at 11.
I found my DS was just being tested constantly and not being taught at his prep school.

LIZS · 30/12/2013 10:23

Agree intake at 13 is in many schools a minority and have heard of even the most social child struggling to integrate. At 11 everyone is new (unless there is a feeder prep) and a wider range of friendship groups open up.

ZeroSomeFestiveGameThingy · 30/12/2013 10:33

To be absolutely honest it doesn't sound as if you chose the right sort of school.

People usually send a child to a prep that goes to 13 because they want the child to be prepared for CE to join a senior school that starts at 13.

It does seem a waste of effort to move a child into yr 5 of that type of school if you actually wanted a different outcome.

What was your original reason for moving him?

Original poster
Mumtogremlins · 30/12/2013 11:12

Thanks, I didn't think about the testing and prep for common entrance.

We moved him in year 5 as he was unhappy at his state school and the other state juniors were no better. He was miserable due to the disruption in classes and he couldn't concentrate, among other issues. He's happy academically now and really loves learning so a good move in that respect, but not socially. Our plan was to leave him there for 4 years to make the move worth it but if he is still struggling for friends, it may be worth moving again if it helps him in the long run

We have to decide soon and let the head know so school can start prepping him for the right tests, and so we can visit both state and private schools. It's too early!

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ZeroSomeFestiveGameThingy · 30/12/2013 11:32

Ok (thanks for your gracious reply - I was a bit abrupt before...)

You can't keep on moving him can you? That in itself is disruptive.

Have you looked seriously at what is causing his "social" unhappiness? The state school didn't suit; the private school doesn't suit... Is it simply that your otherwise lovely Ds is not sociable (likes his own company?) or is there a more serious, diagnoseable problem?

What is this school like? Academic or otherwise? Is your Ds "clever"? What do his teachers see for his future? If he is "happy academically" is that not worth concentrating on? (In the absence of actual bullying or....)

Most importantly - what does he say?

scaevola · 30/12/2013 11:40

You need to think about which destination schools are likely to suit him best, and take HT's advice on his readiness for them.

Also, what proportion of the prep stays for those two years? If it is most of them, then the security of a peer group may be in his interests. If it crashes down to only a handful then this could be very awkward. Also, are the 13+ schools CE or competitive entry?

A prep in an area where schoold have major entries at 11+ and which does not prepare well for 11+ transfers is bound to have a lot of dissatisfied parents (so not surprising they had a vacancy). But despite that it is important to take the school's advice on your DS's level and suitability for the schools on your short list, and avoid overloading him with exams (especially of you hedge and enter him for both 11+ competitive and pretests for 13+ entry with exams in year 6).

Original poster
Mumtogremlins · 30/12/2013 15:31

Zero - he did have friends at his old school but took a while to make them. He was sad to leave them but wanted to get away from the disruptive ones that stopped him working. As I said, he's a bit quirky and just wants to go to school to work so struggles making the effort for friends. He is clever but not gifted, but mainly a hard worker. I feel a bit mean that I took him away from his friends and he says he hasn't got any. But that's another issue!

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Original poster
Mumtogremlins · 30/12/2013 15:35

Scaevola - it is common entrance here. All the girls leave his prep and some boys so probably about half leave in total. The head has given us a choice of a few schools but doesn't really know DS yet enough to judge. He obviously wants DS to stay until 13 and I can see the benefits, but also the benefits of leaving sooner so he can make friends earlier if he's not made any where he is now. So confused - just don't know what is best in the long run. Whenever he changes school, it will be disruptive again but he will have to.

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Original poster
Mumtogremlins · 30/12/2013 15:37

Oh I don't think schools I've looked at let children register for both 11+ and 13+ pre tests - have to choose one or the other

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LIZS · 30/12/2013 15:39

Have you visited the suggestions or do they all have an intake at 11+ (CE entry schools sometimes don't but may well pre-tests in year6/7). Has he only been there a term ? Unless you are confident that he will find a group of friends , some of whom are destined for same schools at 13 or choose a 13+ entry school, then personally I'd be looking for one at 11 .

NoComet · 30/12/2013 15:41

11 only for state
And I suspect, 11 for private round here as a lot if people do state primary (nice rural area) private secondary.

Not that our local secondaries are bad, but we have a lot of MC families who, can just scrape school fees (often by leaning on GPs). Personally I think they'd be way better saving for their DCs university fees. (Or private sixth form for linguists)

ZeroSomeFestiveGameThingy · 30/12/2013 15:44

So - drill down to the specifics.

Where does the current school feed to?

What other schools are possible?

What are the 11+ schools like? Ditto 13+ schools.

Can you afford a fee paying senior school?

He's old enough to have some clue about which are considered the "aspirational" schools locally - does he have any ambitions himself?

Original poster
Mumtogremlins · 30/12/2013 16:08

He's a bit naive about things and in his own world most of the time so he just wants to go somewhere he can learn. When we've visited schools he doesn't seem to have much of an opinion!

All the local private schools have intakes at 11 and 13. About two-thirds at 11 and one-third at 13. I haven't considered the 13+ only schools as they are mainly boarding which I don't want. There is no obvious feeder school - they go all over the place. The most popular private school probably has 5 children go to it from his current school, so it's not likely he would be going with his friends if he made any. Only 16 boys in year 8 at his prep last year, his year currently has 30

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happygardening · 30/12/2013 16:12

As the mother of two very quirky DS's (I inevitably know many others) both have been happier in their senior schools basically they've had more friends to choose from and they found kindred spirits. IME many preps that go to 13+ are very traditional, they're feeding into traditional public schools, heads of these are usually unimaginative bores very conservative with a small c, those children with similar personalities who are usually in the majority, the compliant conformists, are positively embraced by the school, the quirky, eccentrics who are unable or unwilling to conform are at the best misunderstood.

happygardening · 30/12/2013 16:18

If the local schools your considering take at both 11+ and 13+ with the main entry point being 11+ then to me it's a no brainier move him at 11+. Obviously your head will want him to stay, the bottom line is that he looses many at the end of yr 6 and wants as many to stay as possible because he needs the revenue from the fees to make yrs 7/8 viable but that is not your problem.

trinity0097 · 30/12/2013 16:34

Have you spoken to the school about your concerns, someone who knows your son, e.g. Their form taker/tutor/pastoral deputy? It can be quite a culture shock coming to a prep school from a state primary, it can take children a while to settle in to the routine of school, friends take time.

Do you let your son do everything that is on offer, e.g. Our kids can stay after matches or go home, if they stay they get to choose what they do with their friends. If you take them home early then they miss out on that social side of things, which can be hard to get in a school that will be much busier than the state school your son went to.

Original poster
Mumtogremlins · 30/12/2013 17:10

I think he would be happier at secondary school, more children to be friends with. The boys in his year are ok but very cliquey as they've been together so long and as there's just over 20 boys, it's harder for him to find like minded friends. He may get friendlier with some but there's not many he would click with as they are very sporty and outgoing and he is not. He does do an after school club but not many other opportunities to get involved. His tutor has been really good and trying to help him integrate but haven't got far in 3 months so far. Have to give it a bit longer but I just get the feeling he's not going to make close friends there

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LIZS · 30/12/2013 17:31

You've answered your own question . Surely you can ask to prepare for 11+ in Yr5/6 and then withdraw if things change.

monet3 · 30/12/2013 18:35

If he finds it hard to make friends it will be hard to go into a school in year 9 when a lot of friendships have already been formed. Much easier to make friends when the whole year group are new.

Original poster
Mumtogremlins · 30/12/2013 19:00

Yes, I think he will be better off making friends at 11. Just need to stay firm with the head when he tries to persuade me otherwise!

Another question: would you consider a non selective private secondary for a fairly clever child that could get into a good selective school? The school in question has an intake at 11 only, great facilities, down to earth, good extra curricular programme. But I worry he wouldn't be stretched in a non selective school even though they achieve around 90% A-C GCSE

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inthename · 30/12/2013 21:01

I moved ds from state to private in Yr 5. He's now yr 7 and will sit CE in 2015. He is also quirky/geeky. I'd say its very difficult to judge after 1 term, in fact ds didn't settle into friendship until yr 6 and beyond and has chosen to make his friends mainly in the year group below. He also found that once his peers realised his strengths and that their marks improved when in a group with him then he found much wider acceptance, particularly since the start of year 7 when they became seniors.
So, try not to be too hasty, ask your ds how he feels about his school, my ds didn't mind the lack of 'friends' because he enjoyed the teaching and style of learning.
Also, its worth remembering that schools going through to 13 don't usually prepare for 11+, which can be quite different in style to CE.
Plus, if hes going into Year 9, he will usually be part of a fairly large intake. One school my ds is registered with starts with 2 forms at Yr 7 and expands to 5 forms in Yr 9, so they are part of a new cohort rather than 'tacked on' to an existing one.
Regarding the non selective schools, they can be great for all levels, though do ask how many of the A*/A grades are in that 90% and how they cater for able students.
One of his friends left in Yr 7 after being at the same school since reception and has struggled with state secondary (his commrnt being the kids seemed far more 'streetwise')

Original poster
Mumtogremlins · 30/12/2013 22:21

Thanks - interesting to hear your point of view about your DS and it's worked out for him. Hopefully my DS will settle in more. It's just hard having to make the decision in the next few months. I'm not sure how the school prepares for 11+, I guess it has to for the girls that leave.

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inthename · 31/12/2013 07:06

There is normally a designated teacher, called something like 'director of studies' who should be able to help. Its possible they have lunch time/after school sessions for 11+ preperation. Which area of the country are you in?

Original poster
Mumtogremlins · 31/12/2013 09:06

We are in Surrey but not near the super selective grammars

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summerends · 31/12/2013 09:42

mumtogremlins in answer to your question about selective versus non selective, taking into consideration that he finds it difficult to make friends in a non selective prep it is likely that he will find a greater proportion of potential friends in the selective than the non selective. However it is also worth considering that if the selective has a very quirky intake that might accentuate similar traits in your DS (not necessarily a bad thing).
I'm not convinced that close friendships are necessary for happiness at that age particularly for boys as long as they feel integrated and can join into group activities.