To move at 11 or 13?

[Mumtogremlins]

My DS has recently moved to a prep school in year 5. He's struggled to make friends and does generally find it hard to make friends quickly as he's a bit quirky. The school obviously want him to stay on until 13 but I think he would be better off moving at 11 as he could then start with all the other new children and not struggle to break into friendships at 13. The private schools do have an intake at 13 but less than at 11. We are also thinking of the local state school as that is ok.

I would like to leave him until 13 due to the benefits of keeping him in a 'cosier' environment but need to think what's best in the long run

Any opinions on what is best?

Thanks

Sounds very similar to my eldest. We moved from small,local, village, state school where the kids had been together since toddler group, to another small, local, village, state school when we moved house. DS was bullied senseless for 18 mths with the school doing nothing about it! We moved him to local private junior school Easter of year 4. He didn't do any worse at the school but he didn't particularly mix either-he just wasn't rufty tufty rugby boy material. He didn't ever see friends in holidays or get invited anywhere. He moved onto the seniors at 11 (same school foundation and site) and then began to flourish. He is very bright and quirky, gets on well with adults, but since the hormones have kicked in he also now loves his sport and has a competitive streak. He is now in year 9 and has a huge group of friends-all very different characters and abilities-and is popular with kids and (most) teachers alike. I do recall being quite miserable about his schooling as it seemed to cause nothing but upset but now I know he is a happy kid-at least when he's not at loggerheads with his mother! My DD also struggled a bit at primary level as she is very intelligent, quite shy and extremely small for her age. But she has started year 7 this time round and is loving senior school for the mix of people and different opportunities available. So my advice would be don't despair because most of them do find their niche and to move him at 11. I would chose the independent if you can as with smaller class sizes and a more selective intake he is more likely to have the quieter more controlled environment he seems to need.

Trinity we are in East Surrey, not far from Oxted.

Bearleigh - my DS sounds exactly like yours. He probably will make friends a bit more but I can't see him making good friends there and feel he would be socially better if he over at 11. However he would be better off at the prep at 13 as he is also not streetwise and would be better off in the cosier atmosphere.

Does anyone know if the senior schools which intake at 11&13 not like taking 13+ prep pupils at 11? I've heard the senior heads don't want to annoy prep heads by taking them at 11

So far as I know Babybearleigh's school doesn't mind: the bulk go at 11 but a fair number go at 13.

The secondaries don't seem to mind but the prep school heads may ! A lot less preparation and support goes into 11+ candidates than 13+/CE ime. dc school take about 80-90 at 11 and another 40 ish at 13 , but there will be a number of o/s boarders in the second figure so probably only 30ish from UK.

and about half of 11+ intake came from attached prep schools which transfers at 11.

When my DS's we're at prep school, some mums of DD's who were going onto girls schools with intakes at 11+ and 13+ Used to say that senior school heads didn't like to annoy prep school heads by taking them at 11 and that their daughters stood a greater chance of getting a place at 13+. Don't know how true that was and most I fact did stay till 13+ but that was definitely the gossip on the side of the pitch. Of course the prep school head may have told them this but then he would wouldn't he!

Ds school loses a lot of girls at 11 as there are a lot of girls schools in the area. It really depends, looking around I've noticed that more senior schools seem to be taking at 11 and 13 which I suppose gives them a foot in both markets, but ds prep get students who come to the school for the start of yr 7 when they are looking specifically at the CE schools due to not passing 11+
Ds school doesn't prepare specifically for 11+ but as far as I know they don't put any pressure on parents to stay until yr 8, just ask parents to notify them in good time presumably to manage the waiting list.

At my DDs girls boarding prep nearly everyone used to stay until 13 even though the major girls' senior schools take girls at 11. Only a few left at 11 to go to the local grammar schools. It was widely held by parents that the Head refused to write references for girls who left at 11 and that certain schools were a no go area at 11, only 13. However, this started to change and the girls who were unlikely to get scholarships to the senior schools started leaving at 11 and getting places at Wycombe Abbey, Cheltenham Ladies College etc. The prep school always made a massive deal about the number of scholarships the girls achieved at 13 but this was, some of us felt, at the expense of the lesser mortals when it came to quality of teaching. Hence the motivation to move at 11 and a new start. There was however little evidence of girls not getting their first choice of school at 11 or 13. If the school chosen was only taking in at 13, eg Rugby, Oundle, Haileybury, Stowe, then obviously the girl would stay until 13.

There is nothing particularly cosy about doing CE at 13 and the amount of repetitive teaching and testing that gets you into the right school. Often it is cosier to go at 11, particularly if the senior school administers its own entrance tests. I also think children make friends because they are ALL new and are not trying to get into pre formed cliques. However if a lot of children transfer to the same school at 13 it is less of a problem. What is best, however, can be down to the individual child and how the transfers work at the schools you want. At some schools you would go at 11 for a day place as there would be few or no day places on offer at 13, only boarding places. Most schools, of course, are experts at handling new cohorts but I think sometimes not so good at integrating the odd 13 year old.

Answering your question about sending a bright DC to a non selective school. DS chose a non selective school and gained outstanding GCSE results. Who knows if these would have been improved further had he decided on a more academic school? We felt it was more important for DS to be in a happy environment in a school that offered more activities suited to him. DS has a habit of throwing himself into the subjects he loves and neglecting the ones he does not. His DT tutor refused to allow him to coast through his final GCSE year and his eventual B grade was remarkable considering he expected to scrape a C grade!

Choose the right fit for your DS whatever and wherever that school may be and as long as you can afford it of course. If there's a good state school on your doorstep then go for it! I think you've answered your own question about whether your son should stay till the end of year 8 or not. If there is already an issue with friendships, then yes a change at the end of year 6may be better. Meanwhile talk to your son's current school and see if there is more that they can do to resolve the situation. The only reason to keep him where he is would be if you are considering a school with a main intake at 13, but if he's not happy then this could be detrimental in the long run. My son moved from a state primary to a prep at the end of year 6. For him it was a good decision and even though the year group was small, they were an incredibly supportive bunch of boys. DS also has a quiet, studious and quirky personality and at times, struggled with friendships. Now at the age of 18, he wears his 'Geek' badge with pride and has the most wonderful group of mates. Your DS will eventually grow into himself and those years of worry will seem a distant memory. (So I've been told!) Best of luck OP with finding the best fit school for your lovely boy.

I'd really like some help from people who have some experience of the English private school system.

DS is at a prep school in London that extends up to year 8. They promote staying on for the full term and going up to secondary at 13+. About half do and half leave at 11+.

This is all a bit beyond my experience, having been educated at a bog-standard comprehensive in Scotland, so I'm trying to formulate my view on whether it would be better for DS to do the 11+ exams and get used to the bigger school early, make friends, and so on or stay on in the intimate environment of the prep till 13 and go up more mature and probably better able to handle the stress of the Common Entry Exam.

Anyone else have this decision to make? How did you approach it?

Really depends what school you are looking at for secondary and when their main intake is.
It also depends on what year your ds is currently in as to when you have to registered by and when he would need to sit entrance exams for 11+
Then, consider whether his current prep actually prepares for 11+ as its quite a different type of exam to common entrance and there seems to be a lot of tutoring in the London area and very competitive.
What schools are you looking at as others may have specific advice.

I'm trying to be open minded at the moment until I've seen them for myself but Highgate, UCS, City are on the long list. Westminster would be good but not easy to get in. Schools that are popular with the parents at DS's prep are Habs (seems a bit too hard line academic), St Albans and Haileybury all of which are a bit far out of the smoke.

I would prefer somewhere to nurture his strengths whatever they are but provide a really rounded education.

Lots of research to do!!

Make an appointment to see your head and ask him where he thinks your DS should go too. The two schools we looked at for my DS started at yr 9 and the vast majority left their prep at the end of yr 8 so we didn't even have to think about it. I can see the logic is moving at 13 because they are more mature and assuming your DS is aiming for the school recommended by your head who has a good grip on his academic ability and has either been pre tested and offered a place, or been interviewed and offered a place then he stands a good chance of getting the CE % that your chosen school requires.

There are usually around 60 places up for grabs at 11+ the test only includes Maths English and VR.
At 13 (depending on the school) there are around 25 places. The children have tests in every subject.
To me its a no brainer. Having had children do the 13+ and 11+ the last two years of prep they mainly did past papers, had huge amounts of stress and had outgrown the school. When they start in year 7 theyre all new together, there is exposure to a variety of clubs theyve not done before, there are lunch time catch up lessons (for every subject) if they have not understood something in class, the work is geared towards GCSE, they mature faster and learning becomes just that, learning not prepping for exams.

If you truly want an all round education then look at boarding. If your prep goes to yr 8 it is likely to be feeding into boarding schools (the majority of proper boarding school start at yr 9 so everyone is new together) your head would be able to advise you.

Hi mumtogremlins
I am coming to this post very late but your situation sums up mine completely now.
Can you update me on what you decided to do? Would be very grateful
Thanks