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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Another end of term Report, Y7, I am confused.

19 replies

QuintessentialShadows · 21/12/2013 22:49

Ds is at a selective (not super selective) independent. I think they have their own system which I thought I understood, until I saw his report today.

In his last report he was doing 4 and 5s. I thought it was similar to school and thought fair enough. However, his new report is very different.

His marks are all over the place. 1 in Maths & IT, 2 in Science, Geography, History, 4 and 5s in Mandarin, French, Latin (new subjects for him) art, and 5 in English. (He is bilingual and not 100% fluent in English)

He sat level 6 sat for maths, and got L5 for literacy.

There is an explanation saying:

"Attainment is reported in 'Quintiles'. A pupil's work is
assessed as being in the First Quintile if it is currently in
the top 20% of the year." 1 is first, 2 is second, etc, it is explained.

I cannot figure out what way the grades go. Is 5 the best and 1 bottom, or is 1 the best and 5 bottom?

We also received a letter saying that he will be moved to set 2 for Science with immediate effect, but not saying from where, or whether it was an improvement. He says there are 5 sets in each class/subject.

OP posts:

ComeIntoTheGardenMaud · 21/12/2013 22:53

Their own definition indicates that 1 = 1st quintile, ie top fifth (20%). So he is (for now at least) strongest in maths and IT and weakest at languages.

Roisin · 21/12/2013 22:53

1 is good. 1 means he's in the top 20% of students in his yr group for this subject. 5 is bad.

Original poster

QuintessentialShadows · 21/12/2013 22:56

But that means he has improved a lot since October where he was 4/5 in everything.

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ComeIntoTheGardenMaud · 21/12/2013 22:58

Yes, it does!

ravenAK · 21/12/2013 22:58

Were the 4s & 5s in October at this same school? If so, yep, he's moved up.

Original poster

QuintessentialShadows · 21/12/2013 22:59

Yes, same school, at half term this year.

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Ladymuck · 22/12/2013 00:32

I think that you'll find that he hadn't been set yet for Science. For indie schools it is likely that pupils will have done vastly different amounts in science, and usually it takes a term to work out who knows what and to then set. But yes, I'm afraid the 5s are all areas for concern (though not necessarily panic, as you can see that there is a reason behind some of them), and with such a large number, I would be looking to talk to a tutor as there can be significant different between the 80th mark and the 100th mark, so even just knowing how wide the quintile range is would be useful.

ComeIntoTheGardenMaud · 22/12/2013 00:58

LadyMuck is right, but at the same time remember that the marking is relative to all other pupils in the year. In other words, one fifth of pupils will, by definition, be in the fifth (bottom) quintile, so moving up a quintile (or more) means not just improving his performance but improving it relative to other pupils.

Ladymuck · 22/12/2013 01:11

I'm a bit dubious by the focus in a selective school, though it seems to be a common one. The reality is that all the pupils in 1-3rd quintiles will be easily on track for A/A* for GCSE, and most of the 4th quintile will probably get As too. It is only the 5th quintiles where you need to know whether your child is still with the main pack of children, or is dropping off the bottom end way behind everyone else.

ComeIntoTheGardenMaud · 22/12/2013 08:37

Sure. My point was that there will always be a bottom quintile.

Original poster

QuintessentialShadows · 22/12/2013 08:43

I think I understand it a bit better now. I am greatly comforted by the marking is relative to all other pupils in the year. This is true, and could mean that a 5 in English is not as disastrous as it would seem at first, taking into account he was deemed L5 for Literacy back in Y6.

I am surprised at this report though. We had parents evening in December and spoke to his teachers. Both his French and English teacher were so pleased with him, saying he was making much progress. But again, more than half the children are from indie background where they have already studied the languages, so he could be very low down with 5 in Latin and French. 4 in Mandarin.

I actually came away from parents evening thinking he was not performing well in Maths at all, as his teacher was very strict, and told me he needed to show his working outs, not be so fast, not trust his mental arithmetic too much and think carefully, and she wanted to see that his standard work was perfect and error free before he started on the extensions. I am therefore really surprised at the 1.

Equally the 2 in science and geography, as again the teachers were really focusing on what he needs to improve, mostly workings out and report writing.

Maybe the English and French teachers saw him as a lost cause and did not know where to begin in addressing where he needs to improve?

They have grades for effort, and he has top marks for effort in English and French (and all the subjects with 1 and 2). He shows poor effort in Latin, music, drama, and art, and I think this is where I will address his improvements.

I cant make too high demands regards to English and French as it seems he is working very hard, but the other subjects he can make more of an effort.

OP posts:

longingforsomesleep · 22/12/2013 09:39

I would be very cross if I was paying for my child's education and struggling so much to interpret their feedback on his performance. I give my kids' state selective school a hard enough time when they are inconsistent or opaque in their reporting but if I was paying them to educate my child I would expect MUCH better communication!

I wouldn't take any comfort from my child being compared to his peers. I would want to know how he as an individual was performing in relation to whatever formal qualifications he was working towards. Do you know how academically successful your son's school is? Being in the top 20% of a mediocre school is not necessarily an indicator of good achievement at GCSE. You say it's a selective school. But aren't all independents selective? Don't all potential students have to sit an entry test? If, however, it's an academically successful school then it sounds as if he's doing well in a number of subjects. It's early days for him to catch up on the subjects he's new to

blueemerald · 22/12/2013 09:43

Definitely ask for some context. I was in the bottom set for maths at a private school and we all got As and Bs. It's all relative.

Original poster

QuintessentialShadows · 22/12/2013 10:07

I hear what you are both saying, and I will ask for some clarification in the new year.

I dont think the school is mediocre, and although it is not in the top 5 schools in the UK, it still has a relatively good position (somewhere in the bottom quintile) in the top 100. It is not of the most academic, they blend in a lot of art drama and music with the philosophy that these subjects go hand in hand with maths and science and children need to be creative and not have a rigid mind, to excel in all. Clearly my son has a bit of an issue excelling in these creative subjects, and I need to address how to help him.

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curlew · 22/12/2013 10:13

So he got a level 5 in his year 6 English SATs- but is in the bottom 20% now? I would be a bit bothered about this.

It does make me soooooooo cross when schools send parents information about their child which is just incomprehensible! Why do they do that??

LIZS · 22/12/2013 10:13

I think the ones to worry about are any 4/5 with low effort or very high effort but to no avail. After only a term in new subjects such as Latin and French where others will have had the advantage of 2+ years of experience it wouldn't be surprising to score relatively lower, as long as he is putting effort in then he will make it up in time.

lljkk · 22/12/2013 13:06

It sounds like he is pleasant and hard-working (which is wonderful) but not attaining highly compared to this cohort (who may have all had L5+ in English at end of y6). He's still young & I would make small targets of trying to move up to the next quintile in the subjects he is weakest in or is most inclined to put some effort into.

To me, overall, that would be a very good report.

Am you got a report at all for your y7. But then I think I enjoy not knowing where my y7 really is, too.

lljkk · 22/12/2013 13:08

aren't all independents selective? Don't all potential students have to sit an entry test?

No, DS attended an indie secondary with poor GCSE results and no entry test. They specialised in Nice but Dim kids, we realised, belatedly.

Original poster

QuintessentialShadows · 22/12/2013 13:45

"So he got a level 5 in his year 6 English SATs- but is in the bottom 20% now? I would be a bit bothered about this."

I am. But at the same time I recognize that the school is very different, with a vast range of subjects he is studying separately now. There are very few kids from the state sector, so he is compared with a cohort that has had years of learning French and Latin, and have a very high level of English.

He has never really done any art before, the same with most of the other subjects. His music has been restricted to choir, and now he has music theory. It is a big leap for him.

It was selective, he did sit interviews and exams, and there were more than 500 applicants to less than 100 places. I think it is easy to be at the top of the class in a good state school, and end up in the bottom 20% in a selective indie. But he is a hard working boy in general. I think he has just chosen to work extra hard in the subjects he is interested in, and is coasting along in the rest, and not doing that well with it. We need to address that.

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