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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

Best Secondary Modern in Sutton

34 replies

penelopewellingtonbowes · 20/12/2013 15:10

Just interested to know what local views are on the following
Secondary Mods in Sutton...

St Philomena's Carshalton (girls)
Overton Grange
Greenshaw
Cheam High
Stanley Park

OP posts:
suz742 · 20/12/2013 21:41

St Philomena's is an amazing school. DD2 is in yr 13 and DD1 left 4 years ago. The pastoral care is fabulous, I have been nothing but impressed with the school from day 1. The ethos is caring with high expectations of the girls and the accompanying support to help them achieve.
The latest newsletter says there are 800 applications for Sept 2014, reflecting its standing in the local community. The 6th form has been rated in the top 20 in the country from a certain survey quoted by the school.
You do have to have a good priest's reference and obviously be a practising Catholic to gain a place. I will be sad when my daughter's time finishes in the summer, cannot recommend it highly enough.

Original poster
penelopewellingtonbowes · 20/12/2013 22:35

That's good to know it's always been up there with Coloma, it's strange how people can even refer to it as a secondary Mod. If you look at wikipedia it's classed as a 'high school' politically correct term for Sec. Mod.

Does it get girls into oxbridge?

OP posts:
soul2000 · 20/12/2013 23:00

if you go on to the Dept of education Performance website you will see that it
achieves . 84% A*-C English/ Maths and 8% 3 A Levels at AAB facilitating subjects.

They also have a very unlike Secondary Modern 4% of low attainers and 4.5% FSM. It is classed as a Comprehensive. I don't think the school would consider themselves a Secondary Modern with results that put them in the top 5% of secondary schools across England/Wales..

Phugh · 20/12/2013 23:43

This shows more on how the Sutton schools compare academically together with ofsted ratings of the schools' teaching and pupils' behaviour:
www.LondonSchooling.com

suz742 · 21/12/2013 07:23

Yes, St Phils do have girls going to Oxbridge every year. My daughter is applying for Medicine with about half a dozen others this year. The support for that hasn't been as good as I would have wanted, the independents certainly have the edge on that. We chose St Phils over Coloma ( we live mid way between the two) as the 'feel' of the school was incredible whereas Coloma left me cold., but that's personal opinion.
I know with certain years at St Phils there are high achieving years, this year 13 is predicted to be one.
I tread with caution about Oxbridge places. My son went to John Fisher in Purley which I have very mixed feelings for and they had a couple of boys who went to Oxbridge, really because they were very bright and motivated boys rather than any great school influence. The difference between these 2 schools left me speechless!

minifingers · 21/12/2013 08:41

How can a school be classed as a comprehensive when it is selecting on the basis of the parents' religious beliefs and practices? Surely comprehensives don't select on any basis other than where a child lives?

Marmitelover55 · 21/12/2013 10:48

My DD1 goes to a comp with a fair banding system for admission and has a city wide catchment area. It is definitely a comp though, even though it doesn't select based on where a child lives.

antimatter · 21/12/2013 11:08

penelopewellingtonbowes- have look at their 6th form leavers destinations

Greenshaw is very good at Sciences

antimatter · 21/12/2013 14:00

yes - both Greenshaw and St.Philomena are selective

camptownraces · 21/12/2013 15:57

I don't think Sutton has any Secondary Modern schools, with the restricted range of subjects implied (no MFL etc).

Why would you want one?

tiggytape · 21/12/2013 17:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
penelopewellingtonbowes · 23/12/2013 09:02

I see, I have heard about kids coming from all over (even North London and beyond to attend some of the Grammars in Sutton).

Suz742 - John Fisher (which is in Purley in Croydon but administered by Sutton LEA) used to select its boys and parents with an interview, religion test, written statement and asked for reports from the prep and primary schools, it was extremely selective. The selection policy ran from 1990/91 (not quite sure) up until 2000. It was a school that was regularly sending boys to Oxbridge, Durham and UCL- not just 1 or 2 as it is nowadays. The labour government at the time banned Fisher's policy and the local labour party was integral in almost shutting the school down at some stage over 'selection'.

Now John Fisher has stopped selecting it doesn't take boys from 20-30 miles out anymore as it used to recruit from Redhill, Gatwick and Guildford back in the 90's.

Now it only accepts boys living within it's million pound catchment area!

Does St Phil's and Coloma still have the feel of a Catholic Inde?

OP posts:
Metebelis3 · 23/12/2013 09:27

I don't know where you get the idea that Coloma ever had the 'feel of an indie'. It didn't and it doesn't. St Phils was much posher back in the day, like St Anne's - but I don't think it is any more (no current knowledge though).

Original poster
penelopewellingtonbowes · 23/12/2013 16:59

Just look where Coloma is, it's in Croydon's most expensive area (Shirley) and it only takes the girls of Catholics most active in their churches. I have always seen St Phil's being a great school but a second choice.

Just look at the Croydon girls independents, they are practically neck and neck with Coloma in terms of results.

OP posts:
antimatter · 23/12/2013 17:26

I lookes at St Philomena's leavers destinations:
www.stphils.org.uk/images/6thform_2013/Open_Evening_2013/Leavers_Destinations_2013.pdf

there were no Medicine or Oxbridge listed for 2013

Metebelis3 · 23/12/2013 18:48

penelope I went to Coloma and some of my school friends now have daughters there (incidentally, we grew up on the Waddon estate. Very few people who lived in Shirley went there, actually. Look where the Catholic Churches in Croydon actually are - not the posh bits). I also knew people who went to St Phils (just a few though - they lived more towards Purley). One of them actually chose to leave St Phils and go to Coloma for 6th form but I think that was more to do with the difference in music provision rather than anything else.

suz742 · 23/12/2013 18:53

The selection process of the Catholic schools has changed a couple of times in my experience. DD1 had a formal interview at St Phils before this was abolished. The criteria is now on mass attendance and Priest's reference, there is no great obligation to be part of parish life. At JF there used to be points for certain activities, e.g cubs, altar boys etc. after this was abolished the involvement in these activities by parents and children decreased. Our church now has no Beavers, Cubs or Scouts which is very sad.

There has always been a snobbery around sending your girl to Coloma rather than St Phils at my children's South Croydon primary. However, my girls have better stats than their old classmates who went to Coloma from what I've seen.

All 3 of these schools take from a wide catchment with a good social and racial mix, by no means from just the Webb estate at JF!

St Phils did not have the most academic year group last year, it happens, this year will be different. Plenty have had Medicine and Oxbridge interviews so far.

I can't compare St Phils and Coloma but St Phils and JF are chalk and cheese. I declined to send DS2 there as expectations and communication are just so poor.

Metebelis3 · 23/12/2013 19:02

suz in my day you couldn't go to St Phils unless you lived a lot closer than Waddon. I suspect your DCs south Croydon primary is the same one I attended, given that there aren't a whole load of catholic primaries in south Croydon, then or now. In my year group 2 girls went to st Phils, they lived on the purley Sutton boundary. Everyone else went to Coloma st Mary's or Thomas Moore but most went to Coloma. St Ann's had closed its doors by then - but in previous years it was st Ann's which was the snob choice, not sure why. Well - perhaps the fact that it was direct grant? We had a formal interview for Coloma too when I and my sister went there but it was all about involvement in the church that got you in, not social factors (like I said, all the Catholics on the Waddon estate got in year after year, if they wanted to go there). None of my contempararies ever went to JF though - it was all St Joes or Thomas Moore.

We never had beavers cubs or scouts at St Dominic's, at least, not in my day. There was folk group....and that's that. Well, we tried a youth club for a while but it never really took off. I think they had brownies and guides at St Gerts though. And St Mary's.

suz742 · 23/12/2013 19:12

I went to St Mary's, from infants through to senior. I had an interview for Coloma, when questioned I said that my dad wasn't Catholic, unfortunately my mum lied in her interview and said he was! I didn't get a place. Think I've had a bit of a downer on Coloma ever since!
Girls are so fortunate to have the choice of both.
My church St Gertrude's has suffered so much from change in criteria. Lack of input in boys uniformed groups is prime example, they've been in place for 50 years and now all gone. It reflects parents wish for their children to be involved but lack of commitment to give their time.

Metebelis3 · 23/12/2013 20:24

Well, like I said, we never had scouts, guides, whatever at St Dominic's. the folk group was good though. :) I certainly miss the proper Croydon hymns and carols where I live now.

DoesntLeftoverTurkeySoupDragOn · 23/12/2013 20:30

Girls are so fortunate to have the choice of both.

Only a minority of girls have the choice of either.

Metebelis3 · 23/12/2013 20:31

But more girls than have a choice of the posh schools though.

suz742 · 23/12/2013 20:41

Sorry, I meant Catholic girls are so fortunate. The church system may not seem the fairest if that is not your upbringing and life choices, however, for those of us who have been brought up in this system we generally carry on the tradition.
I have been heavily involved in children's church groups, even when I knew I wouldn't send my last child to a Catholic school so feel I personally contributed to keeping the faith going.
School systems are not fair, the grammars certainly not being so, particularly for local Sutton children but its the system we work within.

Metebelis3 · 23/12/2013 20:50

I don't think anyone who sends their kids to Trinity should be complaining about girls having a choice of St Mary's or Coloma (or Thomas Moore).

suz742 · 23/12/2013 21:01

What???? I'm not allowed an opinion on schools I have sent my children to and attended myself? The OP asked for info on St Phils and I gave it as I've had girls there.
As I've said all along the girls in Catholic schools have great options but boys don't. Being a single parent on a low income I've been able to access the independent sector through a charity. Yes, shoot me down in flames for that why don't you?

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