Financial Help / Bursaries

[ElleSusanne]

Our daughter attends an independent secondary school on a full fee paying place. Shortly after she joined our household income dived to less than £24,000 p.a. due to the resession and her grandparents stepped in and loaned us the school fees for the past two years. However, they are now struggling and can no longer afford to help us. We now have to decide whether to move her to the state system or go cap in hand to the school. However, we have over £1,000,000 equity in our house (have lived here for 20 years), which I know sounds a lot but we do not earn enough to re-mortgage or even change our provider (we still owe £300,000). We also have around £15,000 savings for emergencies, which we actually owe the grandparents for the fees but they have kindly said we can sit on the money for now as it gives us security in case of broken boiler; car repairs etc - none of which can be funded from our income.
Wondering whether anyone has had a similar experience, i.e. applied for a bursary with property equity and savings, and whether it's worth asking the school for help or would they expect us to sell the house? I know the answer is to just ask them but it's not something we will find easy to do, especially if it's a crazy notion due to the property equity. I know on paper we sound well off but we are really struggling with day to day cost of living. Thank you! :)

A fail to see how simply having wealthy parents is as an advantage.

What you're citing is the equivalent of the "my grandmother smoked 100 a day and lived to be 90" fallacy, or more commonly on MN "My children may be on FSM but why is the school paying special attention to them". Obviously, there are bad rich parents and conversely parents who are living on JSA but providing their children with a rich and broad intellectual background. But on average, just as people who smoke tend not to live as long as those that don't, the children of affluent parents are educationally advantaged over those who are less well off. There are exceptions. But the trend is absolutely undoubted.

Friday I doubt few would dispute the the fact that in general having wealthy parents brings educational advantages. But the comment made up thread stated that children on bursaries had parents who made a "career" out of being poor, that they were poor on paper alone, and that their wealthy parents not only assisted them financially to enable them to live but they didn't declare this assistance when applying for a bursary. This is highly insulting to those of us on bursaries who work hard, don't rely on handouts from wealthy parents and most importantly of all fill in the relevant bursary application forms truthfully.

middleclassonbursary I am really surprised you were offered a bursary on that income. The GDST leaflet says most higher awards will not be paid if families are earning more than £19,500 and with no capital assest other than their home. It is highly unlikely that a bursary would be awarded in any circumstances where a family was earning more than £40,000 (£45,000 in London) except in exceptional circumstances.

Your information was taken from the Girls Day School Trust. We have one near us the fees are les than we pay with a bursary. There boarding fees are also about £10 O00 pa less than my DS's school. Our school fees our £34 000 pa when you add in the extra your the best part of £3000 PCM virtually the cost of a whole term at our local GDST school! No one on £45000 pa can afford that neither can someone on £87 000 pa.

I'm not sure what you're saying tbh. Why send your dd to a more expensive local school that you can't afford when another is available. Our school fees were about 36k incl expenses (london Day schools) and the schools could not have been better. We expected to fund our children's educationn entirely. One of dd's friends is the dd of a single parent who has a disability and lives in social housing. Her mum works three days a week as a teacher because that is all she can manage. Her Xh bankrupted them before running off with another woman. Her dd is stonkingly clever.

I have no issues in that gorl receiving a full bursary. I think I probably do have an issue with your DC being subsidised tbh - they wouldn't have been eligible for the old assisted places scheme. And are presently having something you can't pay for in the absence of exceptional circumstances and that seems very wrong to me.

married for a start I have a DS! I don't have an affordable boarding school in the area or as we are rural an affordable suitable commutable day school. I like every other parent in the country who wishes too regardless of their income went to look at my DS's boarding school and liked what it had to offer, I felt he would thrive there, we registered for a place was tested and interviewed and then offered a place. We filled in a bursary application form because our income does not enable us afford the fees in total. Anyone who wishes to can also do this. The school agreed we couldn't afford the fees either and therefore gave us a bursary.
The school is committed to offering an outstanding education to all who they feel would benefit from it even if they can't afford it regardless of their circumstances exceptional or not; we're just an average family. I don't understand what your problem with this is.

married - your information is somewhat limited I fear. We too receive a bursary (two actually) and our income adds up to more than £60k.

IMO - if you can show how your dc will benefit from and add to the school rather than the local state options, but cannot afford the fees, then you stand a good chance of attaining a bursary. At the risk of boasting, but to prove my point, we currently have 3 schools offering us a bursary for our ds for senior school entry in 18months time. One day school, one weekly boarding, and one full boarding. (we are immensely proud of our ds!!!).
The % discount on offer currently ranges from 25-75%.

We filled out all the forms honestly, work hard, and support our children to full fill their potential. I repeat - it is not an easy life for us. There are sacrifices.
I know I will be flamed down for boasting about our situation, but really, I want people to understand more about bursaries and what sort of people are afforded them.

I too want people to understand about bursaries which is why I try and answer all queries about them honestly. Bursaries are available although substantial ones not easy to find these days. There is a lot of crap written about them by people who clearly know nothing. As I've already said I very much doubt the OP would get one as she has significant assets but that doesn't mean they are only available to those living in "exceptional circumstances".

Well then we must be exceptionally lucky to have had excellent, top five schools, locally for two children for a total of 36k per annum. But we would never have contemplated boarding school.

However if you only have one child I really think you could have got better value. I'm afraid I do have issues with bursaries for families earning 87k and who have one child being awarded a bursary. I'm more than happy to subsidise children in genuine need but with that sort of income I just don't think your child is in particular need, especially with two educationally motivated parents.

I just don't think you have cut your cloth whereas I think the second poster with an income of 60k has. Also I think the OP finds herself in unexpectedly straitened circumstances and I don't think the child should suffer because of her parents' altered circummstances although in those I would expect to release my capital and pay my own childrens' way.

The moral is that private education is very expensive and if parents cannot guarantee they can commit for the duration at the beginning then perhaps they should think twice. We wouldn't have started if we hadn't been certain of the income/capital to pay the bills until they were 18.

I think good luck to any one who gets a bursary. I didn't even know they existed but certainly wouldn't begrudge any one anything. After all, obviously anyone can apply and each case is considered on its own rights by the school or panel so why would anyone else have anything to say about it?

"If you only have one child I think you could have got better value."
Am I missing something here you don't know where my DS goes to school, you don't know where I live and you don't know how big our bursary is. I doubt I could have got better value for money, I know I there isn't a better school for him in the whole of the UK let alone locally,
"I am more than happy to subsides children in genuine need"
Unless you are contributing to my DS's school bursary fund which I doubt because you would know its open to all then you are not subsidising my DS, secondly there are many ways a child can have a genuine need of a place at my DS's school. On £87000 a year it is not possible to pay fees of £34000 once we'd paid the £3000 a term by the tine we'd paid our rent utilities petrol a very large bill for us as we're rural rates etc we have £25O PCM to live on that by the way is family if three my other DS's bus fare lunch money cost £125 a month.
married it strikes me that you are jealous that we have been fortunate to get a bursary.

On £87000 a year

Another stealth boasting private school parent who can't shut up about how difficult it is being rich.

No I have never said I was poor if you read what I wrote above or how difficult it is being rich I just said I couldn't afford 34k a year. Just as I can't afford a 1.3 million pound house (not that I'd want one) or to go to the opera every night it's just fact nothing to do with moaning about how poor I am. I'm not stealth boasting either frankly I don't boast in general and why would I boast about that size income because frankly it's nothing to boast about. I'm being challenged on my need for a bursary and I'm stating facts.
I'm under no illusions we are wealthy by many peoples standards but money does not make you a better person or a happier person.

Just over 15% of children are on bursaries at my DS's school the average bursary is 66%. I'm sure they would like more but 66% on £34 k is a substantial reduction to fund for 5 yrs.

marriedinwhite There is a similar thread going on elsewhere.
I think though that our experience in London day schools may be different. At my DDs school and places like Westminster etc they put a lot of effort into reaching out to local schools and teachers to identify the disadvantaged bright children who would most benefit from the opportunity. Our experience like yours are of the bright children who get the benefit of bursaries being in real need. The girl with a single parent father who works nightshifts driving a taxi, the carer, the family that has been broken apart by bereavement and mental illness.

When I was touring the Boarding Schools even with friends who could afford to pay, if you have a DC who is bright or has a talent , you could play off different schools to get the best scholarship. If they have the money to spend on scholarships, bursaries etc and you are less part of a community in which you can effectively seek out need you can see they might be less concerned about the extent of need and more about getting clever / talented bums on seats. I suppose it depends how they interpret their duty to the original philanthropic founding aims.

If you can read you can go onto the website of any independent boarding school and read their bursary policy. One parent of boy at my DS's school told me that their DS had found the school himself, contacted the bursar and arranged for him and his parents to go and have a look round and meet the bursar to discuss bursaries. He was in an average state comp and was fed up with it. Plenty of parents from all backgrounds and situations are ambitious for their children and see a top quality education as the way forward and do look around to see what they can find. I inform and encourage many parents I meet about bursaries. I'm have never once said they should be the preserve of the middle classes who've fallen on hard times I agree they should be for all whatever their situation be it good or bad. But frequently the response I get is 1. I wouldn't want my DC to full board, or 2. I'd feel uncomfortable in that environment so the idea is being rejected by the parents themselves.
The other problems that schools like my DS's has is that by starting at yr 9 unlike CH they can't go into primary schools and spread the word about their bursaries and are unlikely to be welcomed with open arms in state comps etc.
Its forums like this that make people aware of what's on offer and that can only be a good thing. But sadly many people make sweeping and incorrect statements about whose eligible for a bursary and who isn't thus putting off those who don't know even further.
The biggest tragedy in my opinion is that a bursary has become in the majority of schools a scholarship by another name. Thus excluding children who for a variety of reasons don't shine. lm proud that my DS's school and a smallish group of other don't do this bursaries are available to all who meet their general admission criteria.

Middleclass you have made my day! Jealous of your bursary - am I supposed also to be jealous of the 250pcm per month you have left over?

Totally agree with poster who raises the issue of founding principles and philanthropy. Absolutely how our London day schools have worked and absolutely the reasons why my dh and I would consider contributing to a bursary.

Ds is on a substantial bursary. I have found amongst friends an attitude of 'how did you manage that' yet they wouldn't dream of asking or applying because they assume things about bursary assistance.

Each school has very different criteria for allocating bursaries, the only similarity being that they may use a standardised form. After that, it all depends what their agreed policy is.

For example, currently ds is at a prep school on a 70% bursary, 10 miles down the road, with exactly the same financial declaration, he was offered 25%.

The bursary middleclass ds is on is defined by the school. If their policy is that applications are open to all then she is as allowed as the next person to apply and have the school decide according to their published criteria, it can't become a problem for other parents in the country that she qualified for a particular school on a particular income according to a particular policy!

That would be like me saying ' I'm applying to x senior school for my ds and its middleclass fault that x senior school has a different policy to her ds school'

There is no uniform policy around bursaries, so one school could have a policy whereby they only offer them to very set criteria (tends to be 'foundation' schools' ) or they could have a policy which allows supposedly 'well off' parents to apply for their style of education. Only the school decides who does and who doesn't qualify, not the parents.

In the op case, it also depends on her dd schools policy for financial assistance to existing pupils and how big theit financialpot is and even how many other parents choose to apply for assistance.

I didn't play any kind of game to get ds his bursary, everybody is welcome to fill in the forms and let each individual school decide.

married may I suggest you take some proof reading lessons. I clearly stated that if I paid the full whack then I would only have £250 PCM left to live on which is obviously ridiculous therefore I cannot afford the fees and the school clearly agrees with me. I am completely unable to see why you have a problem with my DS receiving one especially as you are not subsidising it, don't know my DS and do not know if we have any viable alternatives where we live. So I can only assume that your hostility to our receiving a bursary when you have so little information is underpinned by jealousy.
Over the years I have told many people about bursaries either face to face on on forums like MN I am keen to encourage others to apply but you are the first person to react in such a hostile and uninformed way.

Wow. Our income is 20-30 grand and we assumed were too well off for a bursary but have very little at the end of the month ourselves. Even with full fees paid we'd struggle with uniforms, activities etc.

I was Oxbridge educated. My daughter appears similarly bright and I'd love her to have private school opportunities but had no idea people on 87 grand could get a bursary at some schools!! (gosh if they're the 'poor' ones in that school its a very particular subset of society. Even with 34 in school fees they'd have more left over than most families earn! Very lucky.)

Little nothing stops you applying for a bursary. Most schools have their bursary policy clearly published on their website. As an Oxbridge grad you can obviously read and understand information as well as I can if not better. You have to do your homework, talk to bursars ask around but it's within the capabilities of most parents.
Are the parents at my DS's school a particular subset of society? You tell me, with fees coming in at 34k PA and many have two children there some 3-4 you don't have to be a Nobel prize winning mathematician to work out that the majority who don't receive a bursary are not on the minimum wage. As far as I understand only 1% of the UK population earn £100 000+ these are the sort of people! who can pay large school fee bills so I suppose yes they are a "subset of society."

OP - probably better to ask the school, rather than on here! Good luck.

Middleclassonabursary This is what you said On £87000 a year it is not possible to pay fees of £34000 once we'd paid the £3000 a term by the tine we'd paid our rent utilities petrol a very large bill for us as we're rural rates etc we have £25O PCM to live on that by the way is family if three my other DS's bus fare lunch money cost £125 a month.
married it strikes me that you are jealous that we have been fortunate to get a bursary.

That's as clear as mud I'm afraid. £3,000 a term adds up to £9k a year, therefore you may be getting a bursary of £25,000 per year; or do you mean that if you were paying £3,000 per month you would have £250 left over each month? But that of course would add up to £36,000. And, how can you be a family of three if your other DS's bus fare and lunch money add up to £125 a month - and where does that ds go to school?

I have no objection to those who need bursaries receiving them but I question why you need to send your child to such an expensive school to receive an excellent education and I question why you can't reach a compromise that you fund yourselves when you a have a total combined income of £87,000.

You have been incredibly defensive on this thread for somebody who feels unconditionally right about what you are doing. You have also stated that old boys fund the bursaries. I am afraid neither my dh nor I would contribute towards bursaries offered to children whose parents earned £87,000 per annum. What I have learnt from this thread is that we are incredibly lucky to live within easy reach of the London Day schools which are both excellent in relation to the education they provide and philanthropic in the manner in which bursaries are awarded.

And the people on more than 100,000 pa with more than one child only earn £13,000 per annum more than you. That works out at additional £7-£8k per annum. Hardly puts them in a different sub-set from you with one child.