Classics A Level - is it a dim-witted one?

[lainiekazan]

Some concern that in a state school, having only done Cambridge Latin, ds will not be able to achieve top grade in Latin A Level considering that he is up against people in private/public schools who have been studying Latin since they were 9 years old.

So I have spotted that there is an A Level Classics offered at his proposed sixth form; the course is half Latin language and then half Classical Civilisation.

Ds is most concerned about avoiding any subjects that are considered soft, but I can't spot Classics on the Trinity Cambridge list.

Any knowledge?

Do you mean he has not done/is not doing GCSE Latin?

I can't see why he'd be at any disadvantage for the latin lit paper, which is the one he'd be missing out on. TBH, I can't really see why he'd be at a disadvantage with the language assuming he has done GCSE - he can brush up the syntax and grammar and stuff if he needs to easily - it is very tightly defined - I suspect a lot of them will need to do this post GCSE and the sixth forms will be used to it.

I'd have thought the number of children studying Latin age 9 is pretty small really. Lots of independent schools use the Cambridge Latin course.

The OCR Classics suite offers different routes and then you get eg Classics: Latin.

"DS is most concerned about avoiding any subjects that are considered soft"

There are different degrees of softness. DS did a subject that isn't on the hallowed list because I suppose that they think that it's not as hard as some other subjects. Could be why DS got an A* in it. If the odd 'easy' subject helps bump up the grades then it can be useful, as long as the rest are rigorous.

He has done GCSE Latin a year early outside school (school do not offer it).

I am dubious about "softness" anyway. I know a girl who has a place for Law at Bristol and 2 out of her 3 subjects were soft. - why all this fretting about doing traditional, "hard" subjects when clearly universities don't actually care? It's bewildering.

AH, OK, OP, in that case I would have a chat with his proposed sixth form but if he has the stamina and energy to do Latin outside school, and is prepared to keep on top of the language in the gap before he starts again, my guess is he will be fine. Perhaps what matters more is the quality of teaching Latin at the sixth from? The literary analysis seems pretty heavy duty to me

I did the Cambridge Latin Course, a few years after it was launched, at a Direct Grant school in the north west. I went on to do A Level Latin (and Greek) and read Classics at Oxford. I did find it a jump to A Level, because there wasn't much emphasis on learning grammar and no translation from English into Latin, which, though a sterile exercise, is a very good way of consolidating grammar and vocab. A couple of the Classicists at my college were public school boys who had been learning Latin since the age of nine. Where they had the advantage was in speed of reading set texts. DS1 is doing the Cambridge Latin Course at his independent London day school and is likely to go on to do Latin at A Level. St Paul's also uses it. So I don't think your son would be at a major disadvantage. However, if he has the opportunity to do pure Latin, rather than Latin plus Class Civ, I would go for that - Class Civ is a softer option (texts in translation) though interesting.
If he is thinking of a Classics degree, there are routes into even Oxbridge Classics for those without Greek or Latin A Level.
There are lots of online resources for would-be Classicists, so PM me if you like (I'm not a Classics teacher btw, but evangelical about the subject).

Regarding what the public school competition might be learning - why not have a look at the "Academic"or "Curriculum" sections of those schools' websites? Not all will give full details but some may. It might help you towards a decision.

Thank you, everyone. He was a bit concerned that the sixth form Latin department was "random" with only one member of staff and only a handful of students.

I don't know about Classics or Latin but the one teacher worries me. Ds wanted to take philosophy A level and the school were umming and ahhhing because they didn't have two teachers. The head was adamant that there had to be two in case anything happened to a single teacher ie maternity, accident, lottery win.

As it happened they did have two teachers and now a third.
As an aside at our school all A levels are taught by two teachers, one teaching one module and the other teacher teaching a different module. It works very well. Sorry for hijack.

That is the worrying bit, IMO. One teacher and a handful of students. I'd ask about results - % and numbers going back several years. I think it sounds like anodd course - reading the literature is the satisfying bit I think for many - the language alone is quite dry.

The Russell Group define facilitating subjects - and recommend two of them. Languages (ancient and modern are) on the list. The Trinity list does include Classical Civilisation and Latin - so perhaps 50:50 of each would be OK (Classics is what the whole OCR suite is called - you can pick different combinations from within it to get different A levels). What else would he be thinking of for A level?

If it's a small department traditional Latin might actually be the safer bet - the teacher may have more experience with that curriculum. I would ask the sixth form how many years they've been offering the 'classics' course as opposed to the Latin course, what the results are like for both and what university places the students have gone on to in recent years.

In many schools that offer both Latin and Classics/Classical Civilization the latter is seen as a bit of a "softer" option.

As he's done the GCSE a year early he might want to do a summer school or something like that to keep it fresh before beginning the A level. But Cambridge Latin Course in itself is no bar to doing well at A level in Latin.

I would also be slightly concerned that there's only one teacher for an A level (which are usually/ideally taught with two). But realistically that is the case for quite a lot of Latin departments, so it's not necessarily a disaster. I'd just want to be sure that the results the school is getting for Latin are in line with the results they're getting for other 'traditional' A levels (e.g. French, History).

(I am a lecturer in Latin btw!)

Fluffy Class Civ is the softer option in the same way that reading French texts in translation rather than in the original would be the softer option.
Anyone who wants to do Classics at university and is able to access Latin and Greek will be better prepared than those who can't.

I teach it. I'd rate it as demanding as Geography. But I have only just woken up.

DS1seriously considered doing it we have a friend who's a Latin teacher and I asked him about it. Apparently its far from a soft subject its well regarded and there's lots of reading and writing. Those starting this term at his college had to read all of the Iliad in their holiday DS1 looked at it and decoded it wasn't for him. On enrolment he discussed changing to an easier subject and was again told by the one of the tutors that its heavy subject with lots of writing.
He by the way has not done Latin since yr 6 but we were told by our friend and the college that this was not a requirement.