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Secondary education

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Can 'teach first' really be doing this?

314 replies

Cathpot · 16/06/2013 21:21

In our department at the moment is a very pleasant 21 year old who is on the teach first programme and doing some sort of research project for a week or so. She has a good degree and has signed up to the teach first programme to get into teaching. This summer she will get 6 weeks of training in how to teach, using I think at some point some summer school kids, then in September will be dropped into a difficult school (no choice of where to go) on a 2 year contract.

She is enthusiatic and bright and seems very keen and when I was talking to her I had to kept reminding myself not to look too shocked. She is going to stand up and teach her first proper class to her first proper group of probably very tricky teenagers on her first day in the job. This seems insane to me- how can this be working? How is this ok for her or the kids in her class? I am all for cutting down the college aspect of teacher training and getting students out into schools to work out how to do the job but it seem self evident that the PGCE year is essential to producing teachers who won't get eaten alive in tricky class rooms. She told me some schools have as many as 5 teachers from teach first at any one time and that if they dont stay on at the end of 2 years they just replace them with a new one. I can't really get past how insane this seems as an idea.

OP posts:
RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie · 01/03/2014 23:05

Giraffe - Another v good post.

ChocolateSnowflakes · 01/03/2014 23:09

(Following on from the entry requirements comments) all of the STs on my PGCE course that I know have at least a 2:1. Some from Oxbridge, some Russell Group, and some ex-poly (like me). I don't see what makes TFers "better graduates".

rollonthesummer · 01/03/2014 23:16

Does the 3 or 4 year B Ed or BA with QTS still exist? If so, what are the entry requirements for that?

Philoslothy · 01/03/2014 23:17

There you go Remus, you caught me out. I have one O level in metalwork.

Philoslothy · 01/03/2014 23:19

I didn't criticize 2:1s. One of my degrees is a 2:1. I think the most common degree classification is a 2:1. I said it wasn't perfection. I also said we hired teachers with 2:1s.

RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie · 01/03/2014 23:22

I wasn't trying to catch you out - just pointing out that you may well be a, 'Top graduate' (whatever that is) but that, like my 2:1, may not be perfect.

Philoslothy · 01/03/2014 23:31

I will never claim to be a top anything, I am your average Joanna who has been lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time.

I never said a 2:1 was perfect, in fact I have stated at least twice that they are not. Heck even I have one!

TheBeautifulVisit · 01/03/2014 23:37

I think poorly performing schools are very lucky to have TF graduates. They are also very lucky to have other well-educated and enthusiastic teachers who've arrived via other routes into teaching. But sadly some teachers are poorly educated and/or shoddy/jaded/lazy/unenthusiastic/ lacking in energy etc. I don't know the reasons for it.

People used to be proud to have a father/mother/daughter or son who was a teacher. This no longer seems to be the case. When did that happen?

Philoslothy · 01/03/2014 23:42

My parents are proud that I am a teacher, although to be honest my parents are proud that I am not in prison. Grin

I would be proud if my children became teachers.

When I tell people in RL that I am a teacher I tend to get treated like a saintly superhero.

chibi · 01/03/2014 23:42

well exactly noblegiraffe

WhereDoAllTheCalculatorsGo · 01/03/2014 23:49

I did a PGCE in Secondary Maths and I would not have been able to go in as a Teach First trainee instead, the PGCE was essential for me. Not for everyone however, I had a few colleagues who were natural and would have been excellent TF candidates.

SuffolkNWhat · 01/03/2014 23:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Philoslothy · 02/03/2014 00:21

As I seem to be the lone TFer on this thread I assume that the accusation of smuggery is aimed at me. I have not claimed to be amazing, I have said that I have a degree result that is the most commonly achieved by graduates today - hardly a boast. I have said that I have been lucky to be in the right place at the right time - hardly blowing my own trumpet.

I haven't even claimed to be an outstanding teacher.

SuffolkNWhat · 02/03/2014 00:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Philoslothy · 02/03/2014 00:46

Whenever there is a threshold there are people just under that bar who feel unfairly excluded. If a 2:1 is the most commonly achieved degree classification, I do think that is the lowest the bar should be set.

We don't employ teachers with 2:2. Clearly if you have a 2:2 you are not a "thickie" however it is below the threshold for some teacher training programmes and some schools.

The last statement is not from me.

SuffolkNWhat · 02/03/2014 00:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SuffolkNWhat · 02/03/2014 00:53

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Philoslothy · 02/03/2014 00:57

Mmmm Arisbottle and philoslothy seem like quite similar names.

I don't see myself as a savior for anyone, I just wanted a quick route into teaching, with a fast track to promotion.

SuffolkNWhat · 02/03/2014 01:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Philoslothy · 02/03/2014 01:08

We are just different, I left a six figure salary to go into teaching. I wanted to do something different, perhaps something that enabled me to pay back for the lucky breaks I had but I didn't want to earn 25k a year. I wanted a large family, the big house , horses , nice clothes ... and I didn't want DH to have to pay for 99% of it. I also wanted more time with my children.

We need good teachers but we also need good heads of department, good senior managers and good head teachers.

SuffolkNWhat · 02/03/2014 01:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Philoslothy · 02/03/2014 01:20

I am not arguing,we are just very different teachers in very different schools. I admire, sometimes even envy, teachers like you who have a vocation.

I am working for my pupils but to be honest my main motivation is doing what is best for my children. When teaching stops being the job that gives my family a good life and gives me the freedom to be the kind of mother I want to be, I will leave.

SaturdaySuperstore · 02/03/2014 07:42

"People used to be proud to have a father/mother/daughter or son who was a teacher. This no longer seems to be the case. When did that happen?"

At the point when all the best jobs started advertising for grads with a minimum of a 2:1, and only those with a 2:2 (from STEM subjects at least) went into teaching.

Me: "By the way, I did a physics degree, and the only people I know from my course who went into teaching got a 2:2
"Suffolk: hmm okay your point being?"

My point being that there is a gulf in perception between those of us who did STEM subjects and others who did arts subjects.

Phil: "We don't employ teachers with 2:2."
Schools that don't employ teachers with a 2:2 will find it even harder to get STEM specialists. There aren't enough of them. They need incentives to go into teaching.

HomeHelpMeGawd · 02/03/2014 08:09

noblegiraffe, it is important to remember that TF is not a government scheme but a social enterprise. So TF is not an especially good demonstration of the government's energy for recruitment either, although the government is paying TF to expand its coverage.

Separately, on the topic of TF participants not being all that special: SaturdaySuperstore has it exactly right - the TF bar is not set so high that entrants on other routes cannot possibly go via TF, but the bar is set notably higher and the reputation and momentum of TF ensures it attracts lots of really impressive graduates. By impressive, I mean they have strong academics, the right interpersonal skills to teach, and the potential to be great leaders. They are the sort of people who can and do go on to take the most selective jobs in the country as alternatives - top management consultancies (TF was set up by an ex-McKinsey person, and many McKinsey alumni have participated), top tech firms such as Google, PE houses, the Bank of England, i-banks, etc etc. There are vanishingly few such folks on other routes into teaching. You may think that all those alternative employers are morally dubious or what have you, but they are indisputably tough places to get jobs at, and attract outstanding graduates.

TF graduates are then explicitly sent to tough schools in tough places, with a mandate to teach to a high standard and to act as a role model for high aspirations and ambition. A TF teacher can often talk with personal knowledge about what it takes to get into Oxbridge or Imperial, apply for a job with a top institution, etc.

This definitely represents a particular political philosophy that many people really do not like: elitist, too focused on the top end, etc etc. I personally think it's bloody brilliant.

sassytheFIRST · 02/03/2014 08:16

standing ovation for noblegiraffe

That's the thing, isn't it? I tick all the TF boxes, plus 17 years' teaching experience; am damn good at what I do, respected by pupils, parents and colleagues etc.

But no one is trying to retain me. If teaching was not a vocation for me, and/or didn't fit well into my family life, I would have jacked it in during the Gove years.

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