Can 'teach first' really be doing this?

[Cathpot]

In our department at the moment is a very pleasant 21 year old who is on the teach first programme and doing some sort of research project for a week or so. She has a good degree and has signed up to the teach first programme to get into teaching. This summer she will get 6 weeks of training in how to teach, using I think at some point some summer school kids, then in September will be dropped into a difficult school (no choice of where to go) on a 2 year contract.

She is enthusiatic and bright and seems very keen and when I was talking to her I had to kept reminding myself not to look too shocked. She is going to stand up and teach her first proper class to her first proper group of probably very tricky teenagers on her first day in the job. This seems insane to me- how can this be working? How is this ok for her or the kids in her class? I am all for cutting down the college aspect of teacher training and getting students out into schools to work out how to do the job but it seem self evident that the PGCE year is essential to producing teachers who won't get eaten alive in tricky class rooms. She told me some schools have as many as 5 teachers from teach first at any one time and that if they dont stay on at the end of 2 years they just replace them with a new one. I can't really get past how insane this seems as an idea.

[noblegiraffe]

Meryl wasn't an effective teacher as she didn't have enough control of the class to teach them.

Claudenia wasn't an effective teacher because her lessons were confusing so the kids couldn't learn effectively.

The business guy was rated outstanding, yet his results were terrible - unclear what went wrong there.

Maths teacher appeared to be good (apart from wanting to foist his religious views on the kids) but quit.

Who else was there? The RE teacher and the blonde one. The RE teacher was clearly slumming it for a bit, I couldn't see him sticking with teaching. The blonde one seemed good, but she was in her second year.

Hardly a roaring endorsement of the scheme, given that their classes were stuck with them for the whole year, potentially a GCSE year.

[EvilTwins]

The blonde one was too obsessed with C grades though. Progress is far more important. That whole "look at me - you got a C!" thing when she was giving out mock results annoyed me. Fine, unless he should have been achieving a B or an A. I also found her entitled attitude irritating - she felt that after 2 years, she deserved promotion if they wanted her to stay.

[TheBeautifulVisit]

I'm sure lots of excellent teachers make similar mistakes in their first year of teaching, no matter what route they've come to teaching. Judging by those comments on the TES board, a PGCE teacher can have similar problems asserting authority in the classroom and suffer a lack of peer support.

Teaching is a very hard job, for very little money. Is it really any wonder it doesn't usually attract the best graduates? So getting those excellent graduates in huge swathes (TF cohort is growing) is an excellent idea. I don't think it matters if they only stay a year, two or three. Loads of women teachers take maternity leave and disrupt children's education, the will then take another maternity leave. And some never go back. And the staff retention rates probably aren't great in those tough schools in any case.

EvilTwins - I think Chloe was pleased for the students who'd exceeded expectations. That seems entirely reasonable to me.

[AllMimsyWereTheBorogroves]

It may be very little money by City standards, but teaching salaries are, I believe, on a par with what's paid in other professions such as social work, nursing and various other healthcare disciplines (not medicine, which requires far longer training). When you then take into account the annual leave, it's an attractive option for arts and humanities graduates in particular. It is a hard job, though. I wouldn't last five minutes in the classroom.

[TheBeautifulVisit]

Teaching pays insufficient money to afford a London lifestyle of any kind. Unless you bought your house in 1984. Teachers used to be able to live in London.

[RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie]

The biggest problem is that TF trainees are an enormous responsibility to their mentors, who are often HoD, or another role too. If the TF person only stays for two years, that's massively wasteful of the mentor's already stretched time. Better to have an NQT and nurture them to stay 4/5 years, rather than a TFer who's using it as a step up to the City (many don't but some do).

As I said before though, it CAN work with the right TFer in the right place!

[EvilTwins]

TheBeautiful you are showing your lack of understanding yet again. The grades are less important than the amount of progress, and the obsession with C grades is, at best, outdated.

The other point you miss spectacularly (again) is that whilst PGCE students make mistakes, they are seen as students and are not being paid a salary. They do not have responsibility for the class. A TF teacher does get a salary and does have responsibility for the class. This is one of the problems, IMO. TF is saying that these inexperienced teachers are capable of instantly taking full control. At least with PGCE there is an expectation that the trainee is there to learn, not that they can already do it.

[noblegiraffe]

Yes a PGCE student may well make those mistakes. They are very common. The difference is that a PGCE student will not be taking the class for a full year, and also, crucially, the PGCE student will have the normal class teacher working alongside them the whole time. The class teacher will be in lessons with them at the start, checking their planning, stepping in with behaviour management. They can do this effectively because they are 'free' when the PGCE student is taking their class. As the Teach First trainees were in charge of their own classes, support would depend on the teaching commitments of the other teachers.

I was astonished that it apparently took till after Christmas (if the show timings were accurate) for Meryl to implement a seating plan that split up the naughty kids. Claudenia didn't seem to get the feedback that her explanations were confusing for even longer. A PGCE student would have not just been left to it like they were.

[TheBeautifulVisit]

Evil So are you saying a PGCE teacher won't teach a class on their own? That their lessons are always supervised?

[RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie]

A PGCE teacher may be left alone for a while, but the class remain the responsibility of the class teacher, therefore it is in the class teacher's interest to keep a close eye on things. I used to nip out and leave PGCE students for twenty minutes, but the students always knew I'd be back!

[TheBeautifulVisit]

Remus - when you nipped out for 20 minutes, what were you doing then? Didn't you have your own classes to teach?

[RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie]

PGCE students work with current teachers and their existing classes - so the PGCE student would be teaching my class. I didn't really go anywhere in particular - sometimes just a walk down the corridor - to give them chance to establish themselves with a class without me staring at them all the time! But I was always near enough to support/pick things up again as needed.

TF are pretty much on their own for most, if not all, of their lessons, from the word go.

[EvilTwins]

Beautiful please READ the posts.

[TheBeautifulVisit]

Remus - Ah thanks. I didn't realise PGCE teachers job-shared in effect. Thanks for explaining.

[RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie]

They don't job share. They go on school placements, like work experience. The class teacher is in charge, and helping the PGCE student. The class are the teacher's responsibility and if the PGCE student struggles, it's the class teacher's role to support/liaise with the uni etc.

[EvilTwins]

A PGCE student doesn't job share. Whilst on placement (for a few months) a PGCE student will teach lessons which would normally be taught by the usual class teacher. The normal class teacher supports, team-teaches, oversees assessment etc In secondary, this might mean a PGCE student working with several different teachers, depending on how the timetable has been organised. At the end of the placement, the class reverts to the original teacher, who has retained overall responsibility throughout.

With TF, the TF teacher has his/her own timetable, with overall responsibility for those classes.

[Philoslothy]

I do think that the BBC programme was a poor representation of TF.

I was constantly monitored and held to account. I could never have had chaotic lessons for weeks on end.

I was a shockingly shit teacher when I started and I am now a good enough teacher. I have a string of outstanding observations , both internal and from OFSTED. I have fantastic results and have been nominated for national awards as well as rising to senior leadership. That is not down to any kind of innate talent or a sense of vocation. it is down to the training I received.

If the TF programme was a poor one, I would have been one of its casualties.

[noblegiraffe]

Philoslothy, I'm intrigued, could you give a bit more detail about any aspect of your TF training in particular that lead to you being nominated for awards etc?

[Philoslothy]

I was never allowed to be crap or even mediocre. I was constantly pushed to be better and better. I observed some amazing teachers and stole lots from them. I was made to work insane hours to keep up with the workload and being quite lazy I thought about quitting endlessly but it built up my work ethic and energy levels.

[noblegiraffe]

Doesn't everyone work insane hours on teacher training?

Not much evidence of the rest on that programme.

I'm surprised that you think it was your training that has made you so successful, surely the ruthless entry criteria/interviews etc that people have mentioned were designed to spot your 'innate talent'? Weren't you supposed to be special?

[Philoslothy]

I never said that other trainees don't work insane hours. I am trying to recall events from almost a decade ago and that is my main memory, working every hour from waking until going to sleep. I think the fact that I agreed to work those hours when I became a teacher looking for an easy life speaks volumes for the people I was working with.

I benefitted from the feeling that I was doing the job rather than being a student. I felt like I had to get it right every quickly because I was being paid to do the job. I was also very aware that if I did not get it right, I would be sacked.

I am quite a tough cookie and my TF experience was at times brutal and tough and would not be for everyone. I was shouted at I did have books thrown back at me and told to mark them again. I was at times thrown in at the deep end , but was never left to drown. Although I felt a pressure to get it right because I was being paid, looking back I was treated like a trainee. I did spend time with my mentor every day. Every week my marking was thoroughly checked, staff were in and out of my lessons all of the time. I had to hand in lesson plans in advance and received feedback on that before teaching my lessons.

I think I said above that when I was training PGCE students I was told that I was too tough but is only sought to replicate my own training experience. I have seen some departments work with PGCE students and because they move on in a few months they have not been as tough as they should, thinking they will be moving on soon anyway. I was at my school for 2 years and therefore was not going anywhere quickly, it was in there interest for me to be as good as possible as quickly as possible. I could not be moved on in a few months. Although training experiences vary according to the school or even the department within the school.

I was constantly watched and monitored - and that may reflect that fact that I needed a very steep learning curve. By the end of the first year I was transformed and by the end of the second year I was the kind if teacher that I would want for my own children.

As for me not being special - there is not much I can say to that. I am not special but I am quite good at interviews. I managed to get into a "special " university despite being quite ordinary. I have also been quite lucky in my time. However the fact that I have stayed in teaching for almost ten years and done well suggests they made the right choice.

[noblegiraffe]

I think you do yourself a disservice with your claims of being nothing special.

I've also seen you claim that anyone of reasonable intelligence can teach - having seen quite a few people attempt and fail, I'm not sure I agree.

Was it Teach First shouting at you and throwing books back at you, or was it the school you were in?

[AllMimsyWereTheBorogroves]

Beautiful, you say Teaching pays insufficient money to afford a London lifestyle of any kind. Unless you bought your house in 1984. Teachers used to be able to live in London. This is not a problem unique to the teaching profession.

[TheRoadLessTravelled]

The thing is, Harefield Academy is a fantastic school. I know loads of pupils and their parents and I've never heard a bad word said about it.

I think the only mistake they made was letting camera into the school.

The TF teachers my DCs have had have been good. Whereas I hate them (in primary) loosing oodles of teaching time being taught be trainee teachers who really don't have a clue. The fact they're supervised etc does not make up for the bad teaching my DC receives during their teaching.

We saw Meryl seriously struggle with a bottom set. Life is like that on bottom sets up and down the country. Her other sets weren't like that. Which is why they didn't show them.

My very wise DS thinks teachers get better once they've forgotten what they've been taught on their PGCE :).

Certainly his TF English teacher was better than his current one.

Meryl takes the debating club at Harefield. Which is amazing because my DSs school can't get enough kids together for a debating club. So Meryl must be doing a lot right to have a debating club to run.

[TheBeautifulVisit]

Really? Harefield is a fantastic school?