Can 'teach first' really be doing this?

[Cathpot]

In our department at the moment is a very pleasant 21 year old who is on the teach first programme and doing some sort of research project for a week or so. She has a good degree and has signed up to the teach first programme to get into teaching. This summer she will get 6 weeks of training in how to teach, using I think at some point some summer school kids, then in September will be dropped into a difficult school (no choice of where to go) on a 2 year contract.

She is enthusiatic and bright and seems very keen and when I was talking to her I had to kept reminding myself not to look too shocked. She is going to stand up and teach her first proper class to her first proper group of probably very tricky teenagers on her first day in the job. This seems insane to me- how can this be working? How is this ok for her or the kids in her class? I am all for cutting down the college aspect of teacher training and getting students out into schools to work out how to do the job but it seem self evident that the PGCE year is essential to producing teachers who won't get eaten alive in tricky class rooms. She told me some schools have as many as 5 teachers from teach first at any one time and that if they dont stay on at the end of 2 years they just replace them with a new one. I can't really get past how insane this seems as an idea.

[SaturdaySuperstore]

"even if our education system churned out (grim phrase actually) an adequate number of maths/physics teachers, that would not make teach first a great way of training them to be teachers"

No, but it might make it a less necessary way of training teachers.

We need more maths specialists in teaching. If we can't get maths specialists, then someone with A Level maths is the next best thing. If we have to bribe them with golden handshakes, "Teach First" prestige, or anything else that is flavour of the month, so be it.

[SaturdaySuperstore]

"what about the education of the children who are being taught by them while they figure it out?"

Who else is going to teach them? You're missing my basic point that the schools are making the best of a bad situation.

[Philoslothy]

okthen I am about as far removed from posh as you can get! I am the sort to be looked down on by most MNers. However I was struck by the poshness of the people I met on TF, but that reflected the universities they went to I guess.

[Philoslothy]

IME we figured it out as quickly as PGCE students. I don't think teaching is a great mystery, you watch a few people, you read a few books - if you are reasonable bright and willing you can reach a good standard fairly quickly.

[Philoslothy]

But time wise we worked it out quicker that PGCE students because we were teaching more - sooner. You learn by doing IME.

[Mumzy]

There must be more incentive for maths/physics graduates to teach in schools otherwise the UK is never going to raise its numeracy levels. I propose if maths/physics complete 2 years of teaching then their student fees are wiped out by the government.

[Mumzy]

Maths/physics graduates complete 2 years teaching in schools

[HomeHelpMeGawd]

What do you mean, that wasn't your reasoning? You said: "if employing underqualified people with very brief training was the optimum way to staff schools, they'd all do it. funnily enough, they don't"

This is clearly a statement that argues that TF can be seen to be nonoptimal because it's not the dominant method used.

[TheBeautifulVisit]

The Teach First cohort appear to be of a higher educational calibre than your average cecondary school teacher at a poorly performing secondary school.

[EvilTwins]

I don't deny that many TF candidates are from decent universities. But also there are plenty of teachers who trained in other ways who went to decent universities (me, for example) One of my issues with TF is the constant labelling of them as "top graduates" when actually the TF entry criteria are nothing special. It's clearly not that selective. The assumption then is that TF teachers are somehow special, and that schools should feel grateful that these "top" young people are selflessly putting the start of their real careers on hold.

On TYT, the one woman who was in her 2nd year felt that she should only really stay on if she was offered some kind of responsibility. I was at her arrogance! Two years in one school does not make anyone an outstanding teacher.

[SaturdaySuperstore]

I propse a system whereby universities recruit students in proportion to employers' needs, rather than on the basis of what students want to study.

If English students found it harder to get onto a degree course, because a limited number of places were available, they would soon switch to Maths.

[RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie]

Good post, EvilTwins. I do know some outstanding TF teachers, but still think more experience is needed before teachers take on greater responsibilities. And I totally object to the assumption that TF people are somehow superior to others. Individual TFs don't think it, ime, but TF definitely perpetuate that idea.

[SaturdaySuperstore]

"On TYT, the one woman who was in her 2nd year felt that she should only really stay on if she was offered some kind of responsibility"

She wanted to go travelling. She was torn between that and teaching. She needed an incentive to stay. Seems reasonable to me. If schools want to hold onto their staff then they need to allow them to fulfill their ambitions. That's how other employers hold onto their staff.

[bulby]

And I'm a damn site better teacher than many of a 'higher educational calibre'.

[Philoslothy]

I think perhaps TF graduates have a different approach to teaching. IN my case teaching is not a vocation to me, it is something I do to have more time with the children. About two or three years in I went to my head and said I wanted a promotion and I got it. I have also rose up the ranks relatively quickly . I know that some see me as ruthlessly ambitious - although few people know that I have a teach first background. I teach as a means to an end - rather than living and breathing it.

[Philoslothy]

But why can't you be of a high educational calibre and be a great classroom practitioner. I really don't understand why academic excellence isn't seen as a must for teachers.

[BoffinMum]

The hidden agenda behind Teach First is that they teach the kids nobody else wants to work with, and if Teach First rookies didn't step in, nobody would, and these kids would just have random supply people dealing with them in a lot of cases.

The real scandal is that recruitment and retention allowances at an appropriate level are not paid to qualified, experienced teachers to take on these jobs.

[SaturdaySuperstore]

"Having looked at the TF website, the entry requirements are as follows:"
"2:1 degree"
"300 UCAS points at A Level (that's 3 Bs, if taken from 3 A Levels, though it doesn't specify the number of A levels)"
"A C grade in GCSE English & Maths"


In contrast, the secondary PGCE requirements are:

A 2:2 honours degree relevant to your subject specialism (at least 50% of the degree content needs to be relevant to your chosen specialism).
GCSE (A to C): English Language and Mathematics

Clearly there will be some overlap between the qualifications of Teach First trainees and the qualifications of PGCE trainees, but the bar is set slightly higher for Teach First. With a 2:1 degree you can do a PhD, and access many top graduate jobs. A 2:2 gives you fewer options, one of which is teaching. That is why the PGCE has a reputation (unfair in many cases, but not in all) for attracting many people who weren't necessarily planning a career in teaching.

[BoffinMum]

Philo, there aren't enough good teachers to go around and there never will be. 10% of the graduate workforce needs to train at any given time just to staff the sector. Not all of that 10% will be perfect.

[Philoslothy]

Saturdaysuperstore I would like to know where thse teachers with 2:2 are working. Sadly I suspect they will be in some of our most challenging schools where many teachers with better qualifications will choose not to work - these schools also take on TF graduates - so there may appear to be a greater difference between these two types of teachers in challenging schools. I suspect that if they move on to "leafier" schools the difference may be less marked.

[Philoslothy]

I don't think having a 2:1 is perfect!

[SaturdaySuperstore]

"Sadly I suspect they will be in some of our most challenging schools where many teachers with better qualifications will choose not to work - these schools also take on TF graduates "

Yep, you're probably right. If PGCE trainees could be obliged to spend their first two years in an "allocated" school, like TF trainees, then that problem might be partially addressed. Perhaps the TF programme is a step in that direction.

[noblegiraffe]

It does baffle me somewhat the incentives that are thrown at these 'top graduates' to try their hand at teaching for a couple of years.

I'm a maths specialist, I meet the Teach First entry criteria. Not only that but unlike them I have a proven track record of teaching success, having taught for 8 years.

But are there any governmental plans to keep me in teaching? No: pay freezes, pension cuts, ludicrous workload, being slated in the Mail by Gove etc.

I just don't get it. If they could keep people like me in teaching, they wouldn't need to throw so much at trying to get maths graduates into teaching - they even had to u-turn on not allowing people with 3rds to train in maths and physics they're that desperate.

So much for recruitment, very little for retention.

[SaturdaySuperstore]

By the way, I did a physics degree, and the only people I know from my course who went into teaching got a 2:2. That was before 'Teach First', and before various other incentives were brought in, so perhaps its different now.

[RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie]

Philo - Criticising 2:1s whilst writing, 'I have rose up the ranks,' isn't helping your cause tbh.